William Bradford

“ Yet, under favor, we crave pardon if we cannot consent to the judgment of such eminent ones for piety and learning above hinted. We doubt not, but do easily grant, that the sufferings of those reproached by the name of Puritans were great, especially some of them, and were better known to those pious and learned [men] first above intimated, than the sufferings of those that are reproached by the name of Brownists and Separatists. ”

“ And the minister was vehement in reproving sin, and sharply applied the judgments of God against the same; and, it should seem, touched him to the quick in such things as he was guilty of, so as God set it home to his soul, and began to work his repentance and conversion thereby. For he was so stricken as he could not be quiet, until by conference with godly men and further hearing of the word, with diligent reading and meditation, God brought peace to his soul and conscience, after much humiliation of heart and reformation of life ”

“ And for the church of Leyden, they were sometimes not much fewer in number, nor at all inferior in able men, though they had not so many officers as the other; for they had but one ruling elder with their pastor, a man well approved and of great integrity; also they had three able men for deacons. And that which was a crown unto them, they lived together in love and peace all their days, without any considerable differences or any disturbance that grew thereby, but such as was easily healed in love; and so they continued until with mutual consent they removed into New England. ”

“ And what numbers since those, who have been put unto compulsory banishment and other hard sufferings, as loss of goods, friends, and long and hard imprisonments, under which many have died,—it is so well known, that it would make up a volume to rehearse them, and would not only equalize but far exceed the number of those godly called Puritans that have suffered. Suppose they were but few of them ministers that suffered, as above expressed; yet their sorrows might be as great, and their wants more, and their souls as much afflicted, because more contemned and neglected of men. ”

“ After which conference he was so satisfied and confirmed in the truth, as he never returned to his place any more at Middleburg, but adjoined himself to their society at London, and was afterwards committed to prison, and then banished; and in conclusion coming to live at Amsterdam, he caused the same books, which he had been an instrument to burn, to be new printed and set out at his own charge. ”

“ As he was a man learned and of solid judgment, and of a quick and sharp wit, so was he also of a tender conscience, and very sincere in all his ways, a hater of hypocrisy and dissimulation, and would be very plain with his best friends. ”

“ Young men.—We have seen a book of Mr. Robert Baylie’s, a Scotchman, wherein he seemeth to take notice of the spreading of the truth under the notion of error, and casts all the disgraces he can on it, and ranks it with others the foulest errors of the time, and endeavours to show how like a small spark it revived out of the ashes, and was brought from Leyden over the seas into New England, and there nourished with much [Pg 7] silence until it spread to other places in the country, and by eminent hands from thence into Old England. ”

“ Ancient men.—The name of Brownists is but a nickname, as Puritan and Huguenot, &c., and therefore they do not amiss to decline the odium of it in what they may. But by the rigidness of Separation they do not so much mean the difference, for our churches here in New England do the same thing under the name of secession from the corruptions found amongst them, as the other did under the name or term of separation from them. ”

“ Ancient men.—Truly there were in them many worthy men; and if you had seen them in their beauty and order, as we have done, you would have been much affected therewith, we dare say. At Amsterdam, before their division and breach, they were about three hundred communicants, and they had for their pastor and teacher those two eminent men before named, and in our time four grave men for ruling elders, and three able and godly men for deacons, one ancient widow for a deaconess, who did them service many years, though she was sixty years of age when she was chosen. ”

“ Ancient men.—They can no more justly be called Brownists, than the disciples might have been called Judasites; for they did as much abhor Brown’s apostasy, and profane course, and his defection, as the disciples and other Christians did Judas’s treachery.
And for their rigid and roughness of spirit, as some of them, especially Mr. Barrow, is taxed, it may be considered they were very rigidly and roughly dealt with, not only by the Lord’s enemies and their enemies, but by some godly persons of those times, differing in opinions from them ”

“ Ancient men.—Possibly this speech might arise from a common received opinion. But reverend Mr. Cotton, in his Answer to Mr. Baylie, saith “the backsliding of Brown from that way of Separation is a just reason why the Separatists may disclaim denomination from him, and refuse to be called Brownists, after his name; and to speak with reason,” saith he, “if any be justly to be called Brownists, it is only such as revolt from Separation to formality, and from thence to profaneness.” ”

“ John Robinson was pastor of that famous church of Leyden, in Holland; a man not easily to be paralleled for all [Pg 20] things, whose singular virtues we shall not take upon us here to describe. Neither need we, for they so well are known both by friends and enemies. ”

“ May not & ought not the children of these fathers rightly say: Our faithers were Englishmen which came over this great ocean, and were ready to perish in this willdernes; but they cried unto ye Lord, and he heard their voyce, and looked on their adversitie, &c. Let them [Pg 24] therefore praise ye Lord, because he is good, & his mercies endure for ever. Yea, let them which have been redeemed of ye Lord, shew how he hath delivered them from ye hand of ye oppressour. ”

“ Young men.—We are very thankful to you for your pains. We perceive God raiseth up excellent instruments in all ages to carry on his own work; and the best of men have their failings sometimes, as we see in these our times, and that there is no new thing under the sun. ”

“ If any out of weakness have abused at any time their liberty, it is their personal faulting, as sometimes weak ministers may their office, and yet the ordinance good and lawful.
And the chief of our ministers in New England agree therein. See Mr. Cotton’s Answer to Baylie, page the 27th, 2d part. “Though neither all,” saith he, “nor most of the brethren of a church have ordinarily received a gift of public prophesying, or preaching, yet in defect of public ministry, it is not an unheard of novelty that God should enlarge private men with public gifts, and [3] to dispense them to edification ”

“ When they say it is no true Church of Christ, they do not at all mean as they are the elect of God, or a part of the Catholic Church, or of the mystical body of Christ, or visible Christians professing faith and holiness (as most men understand the church) ”

“ Those answered, We shall do it most willingly; for we cannot but honor the memory of the men for the good that not only many others but we ourselves have received by them and their ministry; for we have heard them all, and lived under the ministry of divers of them for some years. We shall therefore speak of them in order briefly.
Mr. Johnson, of whom something was spoken before, was pastor of the church of God at Amsterdam. ”

“ Ancient men.—Truly, for matter of practice, nothing at all that is in any thing material; these being rather more strict and rigid in some proceedings about admission of members, and things of such nature, than the other; and for matter of judgment, it is more, as we conceive, in words and terms, than matter of any great substance; for the churches and chief of the ministers here hold that the National Church, so constituted and governed as before is said, is not allowable according to the primitive order of the Gospel ”

“ Davenport and the principal of our ministers.
Young men.—But they seem to differ about the exercise of prophecy, that is, that men out of office, having gifts, may upon occasion edify the church publicly and openly, and applying the Scriptures; which seems to be a new practice.
Ancient men.—It doth but seem so; as many things else do that have by usurpation grown out of use. But that it hath [Pg 4] been an ancient practice of the people of God, besides the grounds of Scripture, we will give an instance or two. ”

“ Young men.—But divers reverend men have expressed concerning this matter that God is not wont to make choice of men infamous for gross sins and vices before their calling, to make them any instruments of reformation after their calling, and proceed to declare that Mr. Barrow was a great gamester and a dicer when he lived in court, and getting much by play, would boast of loose spending it with courtesans, &c. ”

“ But when the churches want neither peace nor light to exercise the power which the Lord hath given them, Christ doth not direct them to gather into synods or classical meetings, for removing of known offences either in doctrine or manners ”

“ Many worthy and able men there were in both places, who lived and died in obscurity in respect of the world, as private Christians, yet were they precious in the eyes of the Lord, and also in the eyes of such as knew them, whose virtues we with such of you as are their children do follow and imitate. ”

“ Ancient men.—Truly, with due respect to such reverend men be it spoken, those things might well have been spared from putting in print, especially so long after his death, when not only he, but all his friends are taken out of the world, that might vindicate his name. ”

“ Others have not only been forced into voluntary banishment, by great numbers, to avoid further cruelty, but divers, after long and sore imprisonment, have been forced to abjure the land by oath, never to return without leave. ”

“ To which is replied by another, that if people suffered him to live on nine pence a week, with roots boiled, either the people were grown extreme low in estate, or the growth of their godliness was come to a very low ebb. ”

“ Young men.—Gentlemen, we humbly thank you for your pains with us and respect unto us, and do further crave that upon any fit occasions we may have access unto you for any further information, and herewith do humbly take our leave. ”

“ Young men.—Indeed, it seems they have sometimes suffered much hardness in the Low Countries, if that be true that is reported of such a man as Mr. Ainsworth, that he should live for some time with nine pence a week. ”

“ And the reason may be, that those in England living dispersed and [2] could not meet in their ordinary meetings without danger, much less in synods. Neither in Holland, where they might have more liberty, were they of any considerable number, being but those two churches, that of Amsterdam and that of Leyden. Yet some of us know that the church [of Leyden] sent messengers to those of Amsterdam, at the request of some of the chief of them, both elders and brethren, when in their dissensions they had deposed Mr. Ainsworth and some other both of their elders and brethren, Mr. ”

“ Governor Bradford’s First Dialogue.
A DIALOGUE, OR THE SUM OF A CONFERENCE BETWEEN SOME YOUNG MEN BORN IN NEW ENGLAND AND SUNDRY ANCIENT MEN THAT CAME OUT OF HOLLAND AND OLD ENGLAND, ANNO DOMINI 1648. [1]
Young men.—Gentlemen, you were pleased to appoint us this time to confer with you, and to propound such questions as might give us satisfaction in some things wherein we are ignorant, or at least further light to some things that are more obscure unto us. ”

“ He used great dexterity, and was ready in comparing Scripture with Scripture, one with another. In a word, the [Pg 19] times and place in which he lived were not worthy of such a man.
Young men.—But we find that he is taxed, in a book writ by George Johnson, with apostasy and to be a man-pleaser, etc. ”

“ Ancient men.—It is the Lord’s doing, and it ought to be marvellous in our eyes; and the rather, because Mr. Bernard, in his book, made their small increase in a few years one and the chief argument against the way itself. To which Mr. Robinson answered, that “Religion is not always sown and reaped in one age ”

“ Baylie, page 17.
Young men.—We desire to know how many have been put to death for this cause, and what manner of persons they were, and what occasions were taken against them by bringing them to their end.
Ancient men.—We know certainly of six that were publicly executed, besides such as died in prisons; Mr. Henry Barrow, Mr. Greenwood (these suffered at Tyburn) ; Mr. Penry at St. Thomas Waterings, by London; Mr. ”