“ I don't want to encourage end-user use of any CSS class directly (in fact I want to very very emphatically prevent it) .

can't be tracked, can't be sensibly adjusted, can't... Ugh! If we don't let end users use classes directly, where to store the associated style rules (or even whether they are CSS at all!) becomes a technical consideration. In principle, specifying |class=foo could make the template spit out an XML processing instruction, that an extension transformed into an event sent to a Gadget, that triggered an embedded Flash player that displayed the... ”

“ I think we need more than the mere technical ability to store a stylesheet there in order to make it feasible as the way we do styling. Setting it in the Index: page for one thing, and having PRP auto-load that stylesheet, TemplateStyles-style, from for another. Sans that it'll be too fiddly for all but the most "fiddly" of contributors. We'll also have to think a bit about how to handle default styles for these things. Demanding full CSS-fu from contributors is a bit of a big ask. ”

“ It's an super minor thing, but the point is that any template flexible enough to arbitrarily set text-indent and leading will probably end up being a {{ts}}-style mess that's basically just CSS in a home-made dress and has zero semantic content. On reflection, you quite are right that {{salutation}} is not a good way forward. However, directly formatting it with inline CSS (with or without a translation layer like {{ti}} or {{sbs}}) doesn't sit well. ”

“ While we are a collaborative project, that doesn't mean we have to have multiple people on one work most of the time. We have near infinite tasks that need doing, so there's plenty for everyone to do without stepping on each others' toes. ”

“ And even if there were a small cadre of users of the template that were religious about updating it, the project has grown far far too large for any manually updated indicator like that to be sustainable. I simply don't see any way {{TextQuality}} can work on the project today (outside of some very narrow exceptions, mostly to do with non-scan-backed works) .
Improving the PRP-provided coloured bars is a different matter. There may be things we could do there. It may also be possible to do something roughly along the lines of the TextQuality indicators by different means. ”

“ Migration templates Do we have a template for "this version is a dodge-ass PG version. We also have a scan, we should use that one day"? Or should we make a versions page with the PG and scan version (as redlink + {{small scan link}}) ? The latter involves quite a bit of page shuffling if you want to place the versions page at the base name. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 13:20, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
@Inductiveload: No. And we have people who are not yet persuaded that scan-less dodgy Gutenberg texts are anything but a legitimate edition on par with real editions. ”

“ The most fine-grained concept we can sustain (factoring in our volunteers) is probably the chapter title: once you're down to smaller components you cannot expect contributors to relate to them as semantic concepts except in very controlled subsets. For example, it might make sense to have a suite of templates designed to help with proofreading collections of correspondence. These may have sufficiently consistent formatting across letters, and be a sufficiently narrow context, that a {{salutation}} would work well. ”

“ If you have the original files from Hathi, those are going to be best to work with. Tools that manipulate PDFs often do a very very poor job, reducing quality while simultaneously bloating file size. For example, the PDF in your GDrive seems suspiciously large (111MB) for a mostly black and white scan. I should be able to extract the pages and shuffle them around to make a new DjVu, but starting from the original Hathi files will have less potential for weird breakage. Xover (talk) 09:11, 2 May 2021 (UTC) Page 31 after multiple format conversions. ”

“ Kind request for white list Respected Admin,
I am the owner of my website FreakToFit. Few days before I was citing few articles for information in your wikipedia site as there was less information. But on one day itself I put so much citation that you thought I was trying to promote my content. But its not the truth. I have a fitness and health website which is fully knowledge base and doesn't contains any promotional material. ”

“ And when works require collaboration it is usually a good idea to discuss and divide the tasks beforehand. It is also a fact that, regardless of whether you think it merited or not, you know that the contributor in question is frustrated with you. ”

“ Which is, of course, another argument that we should just live with the wrapping issue in ppoem.
But if we do try to work around it with a fixed width, let's make sure it's a separate param like di-fix or whatever. There can be a million reasons people feel the need to specify a width (some good, most bad) , so if it's just width it'll be a real pain to go back over and fixing them later. --Xover (talk) 18:13, 12 April 2021 (UTC) So, say we had di-fix. ”

“ Both for the whole project (enWS) , for your various tools, and you can tag things as personal (I think User-Inductiveload exists by default even, but I haven't checked; and not sure you can have kanban boards and such without a full project) . Sam can probably help you get set up if you need it. --Xover (talk) 22:04, 26 February 2021 (UTC) I've requested a personal project. I think an enWS project would be a good idea too, since we have scads of things that get forgotten and left to rot. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 22:25, 26 February 2021 (UTC) So User-Inductiveload is a Thing now. ”

“ Act 5 has formatted poetry beginning on the following line, whose alignment depends upon the size and placement of the drop initial. Act 7 has another character's dialogue on the following line. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:44, 28 March 2021 (UTC) @EncycloPetey: Thanks, those are excellent test cases. Sadly I don't think moving the margins in the template will do much to make those cases easier to handle. We'll be stuck in a world of workarounds until the CSS standards for real dropcaps are finished and browsers support them. ”

“ The question here is about getting interwiki links to Popular Tales from the Norse.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 12:44, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
@RaboKarbakian: I'll have a look when my brain feels up to tackling Wikidata. But one bit of information that may or may not help: a translation is just another kind of edition. In a strict ontological sense they are different entities, but for almost any bibliographic database translations are treated as just another edition. That this particular translation was based on a given edition of the original is not really reflected bibliographically ”

“ Which is to say I don't think we should regulate that specifically in this policy. Whenever we want to actually address the issue once and for all (which is a big discussion on its own) , we can regulate that in a separate policy page, or, at worst, have a vote on including a separate section on it here. But for right now I want to kick that can down the road a ways. Added linking to Wikidata through {{wdl}}. Removed prohibition on links to Commons, with a mind to linking to a category there. ”

“ You can override it in user css using #topicmatcher {display: inline !important;} (don't forget the !important, it's needed to override the templatestyles here) . --Xover (talk) 13:42, 9 February 2021 (UTC) Thanks for all the work, all seems to be working well, I have done some adaptation for the cats and stuff, and some annotations about use. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:22, 10 February 2021 (UTC) Using a template is good in that it doesn't need any fancy JS or CSS to show, but it does inject it into the page area. Would it make more sense to have it shunted to the .mw-indicators area by JS? ”

“ Any template that by design or usage does too many things is going to be a real pain to modify once it's been left to amass usages too long. I have hopes for the ~6k uses of {{indent}} (but am worried about its /s, /c, and /e variants) , but there are others with truly ridiculous transclusion counts and widely irregular usage patterns. --Xover (talk) 10:51, 1 March 2021 (UTC) I'm not sure it's fair to call it a a known quirk in a class of user agents. If the document doesn't specify a text-indent on a paragraph, it's up to the UA to do what it wants. ”

“ Then it can just be:
$ (function () { $ ('.wd-tool-template') .prependTo ('.mw-indicators') } Inductiveload—talk/contribs 14:24, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
@Inductiveload: What I really wanted to do was implement the whole thing as a gadget instead of a template so that only those that want it get it. But I couldn't find any sane way to access WD from JS, so this was more of a quick hack solution. I think right now Billinghurst is the only one that wants the topicmatcher link, so having it in every page (in the relevant works) for every user is a bit overkill. ”

“ Now what exactly was it you wanted myself and Inductiveload to do about a disagreement between two long-term members of the community? --Xover (talk) 07:47, 18 April 2021 (UTC) regex for complex cleanup I cannot get my brain around getting a couple of cleanup regexes for a page like Page:Encyclopædia Britannica, Ninth Edition, v. 5.djvu/440. To remove the excessive 9link when there is a mix of piped and unpiped template usage. Cannot do an "all but not" ( [^\|] +?) or ( [^}] +?) as they are so template intense you run into the next template. Can you think of a way through? Thanks. ”

“ But then there's also stuff like this current task, running through a category and cleaning up something until the cat is empty. I'll reuse the transformation 5 or 50 or 500 times, but then I probably won't ever need it again. These ad hoc transforms could quite well live in WebStorage (size-limited, aged out by the web browser eventually, not shared across browsers) until I hit the little x to delete it. The more permanent stuff needs another solution (function hooks from user .js probably) . --Xover (talk) 16:11, 26 February 2021 (UTC) Oh, hmm, you're special-casing
? ”

“ Well, yes, but there are always going to be situations where custom tweaking is needed and we can't automatically determine it. I'm talking about finding a default top margin that obviates the need for customization (the 3=0.1em that is being added reflexively) in the majority of cases. --Xover (talk) 13:38, 29 March 2021 (UTC) @Inductiveload: Ok, judging by Template:Dropinitial/testcases#Currently_using_top_margin, by using the calculated top margin on the outer span we can hit alignment with upper-case text with almost perfect accuracy for image-based dropcaps. ”

“ Not necessarily the change you would like to see (it might be, but I make no predictions of any outcome) , but at least to make the policy clearer and more consistent, both internally and with other policies. --Xover (talk) 18:45, 6 March 2021 (UTC) PGDP Despite what Nickw25 believes, the site administrators on PGDP want nothing to do with Wikisource. Even before Inductiveload downloaded the files, they told me and my friend to pound frozen sand. She was a community member. We merely asked to see one archived project and the response was very negative. They want to be left alone. ”

“ And attaching them to the scan, which was a thing here a few months ago. A good thing, in my opinion. Regardless of what happens in this case, changing version pages here, at source, into redirects gets reflected at wikidata. All of that liter. w/poem, edition stuff I did there disappeared, leaving the version here ( [ [Some Book/A Poem] ] as the link on the liter. work there.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 12:50, 4 May 2021 (UTC) @RaboKarbakian: You are still not listening, and you don't know about what you are talking. ”

“ We could use clearer guidance on this, but that's an issue for discussion first. I also don't think this is a particularly pressing issue. The recent conflict over your approach is an anomaly, and most of the time contributors use their own good judgement and it ends up just fine. Unless I'm missing a lot of simmering frustration on this issue, I don't think this is a significant problem. --Xover (talk) 08:48, 2 April 2021 (UTC) @Xover: One final clarification - Index:History_of_the_Anti_corn_law_league_-_Volume_2.pdf Here the issue is that "Title" would otherwise be (i) in the run of pages. ”

“ In those circumstances it would be wise to try to avoid wading in on a work where they are already working. As I said, there's tasks enough for everyone. --Xover (talk) 12:02, 5 April 2021 (UTC) redact templates Would it be possible for us to have just one redaction template? Multiples is just confusing and seems superfluous for the one act. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:04, 6 April 2021 (UTC) (noticed through unconnected pages)
@Billinghurst: Yeah, that's the plan. ”

“ It should definitely be less expensive computationally since we can do variable assignment and relative comparisons natively, but it might not necessarily be more readable and maintainable for people used to template syntax. --Xover (talk) 08:11, 6 January 2021 (UTC) Thanks, thought it was the case, though didn't have the time to get my brain into that space. It is not native thinking for me. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:49, 6 January 2021 (UTC) File:Comp3-pre-0415.pdf Index/Page clean up required. ”