“ Fiction and non-fiction should not be treated the same. No links may be good for fiction, but for non-fiction news articles, Coroner Rollins really is somebody, there is no speculation, it is not a roman à clef like Primary Colors where people endlessly speculate who corresponds to the fictional person portrayed. I can see where the London of Alice in Wonderland, may not be the real London, it may exist only as a fictional London. Non-fictional news-articles are different, and the reader loses, when the real historical Coroner Rollins is not identified and linked to his entry in Wikidata. ”

“ Mapping from printed page number to index-into-file numbers may be the original purpose, but labelling pages for easy navigation by proofreaders and providing link targets on transclusion are not inherently invalid concerns. All of this can be solved through technical measures, but we need to figure out which aspects are worth solving and what that solution looks like. Nothing is free and some things may be prohibitively expensive. ”

“ If he wants to continue to assert that Index page labels should not be a matter of personal preference, I propose that we instead come to a consensus on how policy (not guidelines pages or "advice") should deal with Index page labels. I'm not sure what policy page would be sufficient for asserting this as a rule though. So, would you guys vote Support to allow Index pages to label copyrights as "copyr", frontispiece pages as "frontis", covers as "cover", or title pages as "title", for example? ”

“ Primarily, the special page is not designed for how Wikisource operates. Page: and Index: ns pages (our workspace) typically do not need categorisation; they are not seen as display pages, and generally only need categorisation with maintenance categories where it is required. We would normally only categorise subpages where they are different from the category of the work, so many subpages show. There is no means to have the special category display in main namespace works only nor to filter out subpages. Then often it is wrong as there are categories and it just doesn't sense it properly. ”

“ In Wikipedia people are constantly being moved from name to name, and redirects are not always left behind to create a synonym. Especially where there might be a dozen people with the same name. "John Smith (politician) " might be moved to "John Smith (lawyer) " or "John Smith (New Jersey politician) " or "John Smith (mayor) " and a different person then occupies the previous "John Smith (politician) " or it may become a disambiguation page. Link rot is higher in Wikipedia. Usually the bare minimum information is just what I am looking for, not a full biography. ”

“ Or the entire newspaper? Why is a single article from a newspaper, not an excerpt from that issue, yet an advertisement from the same issue is? The New York Times ad I showed is one of 8 excerpts from a 13 page issue of the The New York Times from 1900. The rules here can be can be mind-numbingly opaque based on fuzzily worded policy pages describing "excerpts" and "annotations". Good intentioned people keep coming to diametrically opposed conclusions when interpreting them. ”

“ Perhaps we need to distinguish between what is absolute policy (!Wikilaw concerning copyright) , and what is considered proposed best practices. !Wikilaw can be weaponized to harass editors. Since I have been organizing the newspaper articles, I can see a half dozen ways that articles are named, and an equal number of ways that newspaper articles are formatted, and just as many ways that newspaper articles are aggregated into portals. I am sure that the researcher only cares about the information contained within the articles, the rest is just esthetics. ”

“ However, the works we can't host are best left unlinked. For authors where no works can be hosted by us, it's better to not list at all. In both situations this reduces the temptation to add works that would then have be removed under the copyright rules. As you say, the author pages for Stephen King & J. K. Rowling are there to indicate that they are copyright authors. Normally, we would delete such pages, but as these two (amongst others) are likely to be repeatedly created, it was decided to leave them with the copyright notice. ”

“ Showing how it should be done, rather than describing how it should be done, will make it clear to everyone. We are arguing over contradictory wording on multiple RFCs and essays and draft policy pages. One good example will make it clear. I am still not sure if the "complete unannotated version" you are referring to is the scan of the original document, or we are supposed to cut and paste the text twice in every entry, one with links and one without links. Are formatting changes also annotations? Is choosing the text size for a headline changing the urgency of a news article? ”

“ The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 23 March. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 24 March. It will be on all wikis from 25 March (calendar) . Syntax highlighting colours will change to be easier to read. This will soon come to the first wikis. Future changes
Flagged revisions will no longer have multiple tags like "tone" or "depth". It will also only have one tier. This was changed because very few wikis used these features and they make the tool difficult to maintain. ”

“ I would (again personally) say that generally, a single death notices is a section of an article, and the whole "Births, Deaths & Marriages" section of the paper is the "unit" which we'd proofread and transclude at. Creating an entire mainspace page for every 4-sentence entry is too much overhead, IMO. Even language dictionaries often chunk into sections like Chambers's Twentieth Century Dictionary 1908/A Adhere and Dictionary of the Swatow dialect/ba rather than a page-per-entry. {{anchor}} can be used to link directly to a single entry within a page if needed. ”

“ Sometimes, a work is moved and the link on the Author page is a redirect. Each of those situations is common and can generate bad results. Having the Download link on the page for the work itself makes the most sense. ”

“ Perhaps, we could have a set section called Transcribing Guidelines that we could transclude. This section would contain an introduction to the work, it's significance, and any special instructions. We would tell users to keep it short. I disagree (my opinion only) that the Index: ns is the place to talk to them about the work; Index: and its talk space are solely a workspace and instructional, rather than contextual or informational; those aspects of a work belong in more obvious and in front-facing content namespaces, which for us have been main, WS:, Author:, or Portal:. ”

“ Languageseeker (talk) 18:19, 9 March 2021 (UTC) @Languageseeker: For most/many of our works there should be ZERO requirement for special formatting instructions. They typically have been used for more complex multi-volume works, or for where some PotM so that there is uniformity. Having someone increase participation is not through putting formatting instructions on an Index: page. If one click is going to deter someone, then 200 to 500 clicks later for a 200 page book is going to kill them. Do not try to make an Index: or an Index: talk page into a Wikisource:WikiProject page. ”

“ We now have contradictory policy pages Wikisource:Annotations and Wikisource:Wikilinks with each claiming they ban or allow wikilinks in the body of an entry. The same wording needs to appear in each, so they do not contradict each other. The policy should also address "specially labelled separate copies of works" that User:Xover keeps referring to, but has not been able to give an example of. It would also help if the policy page contained clear specific examples of proper annotations and improper annotations. When we only have words, and no examples, people interpret the words differently. ”

“ It always makes me feel so impressed. Languageseeker (talk) 18:49, 15 March 2021 (UTC) Actually, we don't have that anywhere near that many texts because the count includes sub-pages, most of which are chapters of a text. I haven't been able to think of a way to accurately count how many texts we hold because it needs to be all the root pages that aren't disambiguation pages and some subpages where the work is an anthology that reprints works that were separately published. Then there's the problem of how to count journal and newspaper issues articles. ”

“ Inductiveload—talk/contribs 08:45, 9 March 2021 (UTC) A complete article from a newspaper is not considered an excerpt. There are still excerpts around, and I definitely created some in the early days, though as Inductiveload said they are problematic in nature, especially where someone starts to work on a whole newspaper. Transcribing and recording parts of compiled works is a laborious set of tasks to do properly.Getting specific text to explain it and getting people to read it is always the challenge. ”

“ What is art, and what is not art is very personal, and museums and archives, are now confronting their past biases. Don't you think it would have been better for Billighurst to bring the move up for consensus before moving the letter from mainspace? Is Wikisource designed solely to contain art? ”

“ There is no appointed person taking care of all new works to feature them under New Texts. Once somebody has proofread a work, transcluded it into the main namespace and provided it with an appropriate licence, they can add it to Template:New texts. ”

“ If we apply the presence of a document in an archive, then we can reproduce every probate document that has been registered, every land transaction, every police record, we can include every convict court case, and that becomes an unholy mess to manage and curate, and makes our scope extraordinarily large. WWI says we take published works, then expands into what are documents related to more issues of notability. ”

“ Conflict of interest is someone, or their agent, who is publishing a book, and thinks that they can create an author page and list their works. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:41, 7 March 2021 (UTC) Again multiple people are reading the same policy are coming to the exact opposite conclusion. Stephen King & J. K. Rowling get empty author pages but Canadian politicians do not get pages. The rules should be so precise, and objective, that a bot can implement them. Subjectively enforcing poorly written rules is how we end up with selection bias and time wasting edit wars. ”

“ I think editors here are still experimenting with the most useful and practical way to display information, so that it maximizes usefulness to the end user: I think this is absolutely the case. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 13:58, 9 March 2021 (UTC) Yes, I have seen poorly worded, subjective rules, weaponized to harass contributors. As I pointed out before, if you let people with admin rights delete what they do not like, you end up with selection bias. ”

“ If they aren't seeing that then maybe they are not looking. The formatting on the Index: page really has a little bit of room at the top. There is a little scope to add something to the TOC field, as we did with DNB works in the early days though it was horrible for trying to add detailed instruction, hence why we moved to the talk page. — billinghurst sDrewth 11:10, 9 March 2021 (UTC) I can see it, but even one additional click makes it less probable for a user to see it. Also, they don't always exist. It's easy to forget that some users may not know how to add bold text or italic. ”

“ We have too many subjective rules that are selectively enforced. That lets the rules be used to punish people that you don't like or don't get along with. I understand Billighurst has admin rights, but that shouldn't preclude him from gaining consensus first. ”

“ Anyone who wants to build Help:Newspapers or Help:Transcribing newspapers with or without scans is always welcome here to transfer our snippets. Volunteers who can build good help pages has always been a shortfall here, we all prefer to work on the content. ”

“ Look at the current Proofread of the Month Women of the West can you give me one reason that is obvious to the user as to why they should help to transcribe it? We can't just give users a book, tell them to transcribe it, and expect them to get involved. People need reasons to volunteer. Languageseeker (talk) 01:57, 10 March 2021 (UTC) And I will say it again, the Index: namespace is not the place to do it, it is not joe-public front-facing namespace, you are already too deep. I have no issue with all the encouragement, excitation, interest, etc. and it belongs before you get to an Index: ns. ”

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