“ I responded with a series of arguments that strike me as quite reasonable: (1) "overlinking" harms no-one and if an article is "overlinked" there are ways a person can easily view a text-only version of the article; (2) a well-linked page is beneficial to people who for whatever reason lack a background in the subject and who don't get references you and I might consider easy to understand; and (3) a well-linked page is useful for people who want more information on a subject touched on in the text. ”
Summary
Quotes from Billinghurst/2010 ()
“ The other page is a new creation, so undoing it is a deletion, not an undo. Again, if someone has a better idea, then delete it. Or prepare something better and replace it. What is there is not wrong, it just may not be to your preference. I am simply going through and bringing forward a whole heap of text that has been validated or proofread, and I get people being cryptic with me, and asking me to do things that they can themselves achieve. If there is no note on a work that there is something in process, then what else is expected? ”
“ Let alone people who are young, or for whom English is a second language, or whatever. Linking makes a work more accessible to people who might not have the necessary background to understand a work, especially one like this where Lord Macaulay makes all sorts of oblique references. And then, secondly, I think that one of the wonderful things about wikis is that, even for people who get the reference, if you want to learn more about a topic. I read Wikipedia like that all the time, and I see no reason people wouldn't want to read Wikisource in the same way. ”
“ Wikipedia:Transclusion is the act of having some text in one place, and using it in another place by including it as a part of the whole, and mostly seen with templates. So the comment just means that to transclude the text we have some flexibility about the name of the originating Index/Page name.— "ns-0" is just another name for the main namespace, each namespace main/Talk/Author/Author talk/Page/Page talk/... all have a different ns-X and it is just organisational, and means that different languages can name their namespace in their own language. ”
“ At WS, the principle is content is king, and many will try to replicate the work thereafter, it is NOT the necessity, just a really nice thing to do. It is the art of the possible, not performing the impossible. My idea was creating separate pages for the songs included, and linking to them from the table of contents (see my sandbox) .Are you talking about the main namespace presentation, ie. the transclusion from the Page: namespace to the mainspace? A song per page sounds ideal, though reserve final opinion until we could see that it actually works. All that sounds really feasible. ”
“ The source of a djvu or pdf file should be indicated on the file page on commons, and not on the index page, because the djvu file might be replaced/updated many times during the life of an index page. Users who update the file at commons will not necessarily update the source information at wikisource. I don't know how many old-style index pages remain at en.ws; if the answer is zero, maybe we could provide the link to the file automatically, without having users fill a field. ”
“ There are quirky tweaks that we can do to shift emphasis, or highlight components; we have very light rules, aka Wikisource:Style guide, a little more convention; we remain true to the printed word, and hopefully we can be an open and helpful community. You have been at WS:S which is the best place, though if you have particular questions, then do feel that they can be asked. Though as a general comment, the Wikisource:Proofread of the Month is always a great learning place as lots of people contribute and there is always something to learn from seeing others at work. ”
“ Seriously: my position is that if you think that my adding links to this page is such a detriment to the project that you need to expend your time removing links and/or banning me, I would humbly submit that it isn't worth your time and that even if you disagree with my position, this isn't something worth fighting about. If you feel otherwise, like I said: you hold all the cards, so more power to you. Though I would note, that you probably could have added "Jerusalem Delivered", which is available at several places online, to Wikisource, in the time he you spent criticizing me. ”
“ Our community has a consultative approach, and a streak of independence, lashings of both reasonableness and practicality. We work on the basis that we host things that have survived peer review. Knowing the way that we allow thorough community discussion on matters with variation of opinion, we would have a decision some year into the future. ”
“ The escape clause is unless you can clearly demonstrate that the style does not meet the requirements and that using it is actually detrimental to the work The rest of the community seems to be able to keep our works to the style, and have them looking clean and usable, without creating a whole new layer of complexity. ”
“ Next steps prior to the subst: nightmare? Do we now need to make it more robust such as putting in both-case explicit #ifeq: tests (currently gender is "m" for masculine and anything which isn't null for feminine, for instance) ? What else? Ghastly thought occurs to me: once we're really, really done, is there any way of asking a bot to trawl effectively the inverse of our template over the Private Acts, so leaving me with page after page of faithful boilerplate, flecked only with the actual names, dates, numbers, rates of pension, etc. needing to be proofread? ”
“ I linked to the Wikipedia article in the text, Benjamin Haydon. Is that a good thing to do? Another editor (talk) 22:34, 10 September 2010 (UTC) Absolutely. Work on the philosophy of link locally wherever makes sense, and that is ideally main namespace, author namespace, and portal namespace (see Help:Namespaces) . To wikipedia, if whole article then use wikipedia = Benjamin Haydon in the {{header}}, otherwise judicious linking within articles. Judicious = where the linking adds value or relevance, and specific people often do, though we need to make sure that it is the right person, etc. ”
“ I have poked a note on the template's talk page and we will see whether there is some discussion, or it is done. If nothing happens, then we can probably go and do. In the interim you can just add the values as parameters, eg. x=XX|y=YY where XX and YY are the measures that you want. As they are undefined at this time they will be ignored, and if/when we put them into play, they will be seen and interpreted. If nothing has happened in a week or two, please give me a prod. — billinghurst sDrewth 11:47, 21 July 2010 (UTC) There's been no change to the template, and it's almost three weeks. ”
“ Instead of responding with arguments about why "overlinking" is bad for the project, I'm faced with a bunch of admins supporting their admin buddy and not offering any persuasive reasons for their positions. That's not the way people who support "an inclusive, welcoming, nurturing culture" behave. ”
“ Really, we think that this is easier. On the Page: article, all one needs to do is to format, and have the section markers place at the front and end of each article. Then create the new page in the main namespace paste in the {{DNBset}} template, and complete each line of data (as relevant) , then save. The template does the rest producing the article. Voila! If you just want to typeset the article, I am happy to do the main namespace component, though it isn't actually difficult, and besides, it won't break anything if it is not got right, and readily tidiable. ”
“ But fixing the titles is a discrete issue, and the chaos can be reduced by listing on author pages and checking against the handbook there is for the CE. In sum, getting volume 1 posted in PageReader would be a big plus. I'm not actually too worried about the text layer, more about readable djvus, because I imagine pasting in the existing article text, checking the format (which is subject to all sorts of arbitrary headings etc. in what we have) , and transcluding with an improved header. This can be done piecemeal over time, one volume at a time. ”
“ So I will answer in principles and open the discussion We comfortable with more than one version of a work, though most of these have been small works, usually poems. We prefer works backed by images rather than words alone, though that is not to discredit existing versions as they can come from other editions. Some contributors of previous works are comfortable replacing their contributions with images, whereas others can be less amenable. ”
“ Having the ability to have a gentle look at each others botting is a good thing. — billinghurst sDrewthFinding the piped (DNB00) s I sketched an ambition at the DNB project talk, to have an automated way to create alphabetical segments of DNB articles from the author page listings. A precondition for that seems to be to have the listing format standard. I can easily get all the unpiped suffix (DNB00) entries: this is nearly done. For the piped old-fashioned " (DNB00) |" entries, can AWB find these in the wikitext of the author page namespace? Would save going through. ”
“ To who decides a style, for a work that a contributor brings, then they pretty much do; for a PotM, it will depend, and I will admit that often it is one of the more confident (?) contributors, usually someone who has a good knowledge of the more successful styles that we use, or maybe that should be more robust and we have a little more confidence less likely to break. The text is king, and a consistency is second, and facsimile is third (sort of) . — billinghurst sDrewth 12:06, 6 August 2010 (UTC) Thanks! ”
“ Personal opinion: We all need to work on validating work, otherwise it doesn't get validated; so that is me living my values. That I know that it has had an excellent initial proofread, and is a good scan, and smaller pages, has absolutely nothing to do with the choice. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:58, 1 May 2010 (UTC) Image I don't know whether I can upload this image to Commons because I don't know if it's public domain here in the U.K. So far I've uploaded all of the other images under {{PD-70}}, because they were all drawn and printed by the same people, but I'm not sure about this one. ”
“ We want to maintain an inclusive, welcoming, nurturing culture here, but that doesn't mean we welcome cultural poison, and people who respond to polite, constructive criticism with passive-aggressive nonsense like this, are just that: cultural poison. ”
“ Comment about use ... there are provisions in laws for the fair use of a work, or the licensing of a work and what arrangements they have they can use. That is just how it is, there will always be some limitation or consequence to every action or inaction. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:40, 7 April 2010 (UTC) "Things to note. Wikisource hosts matters clearly in the public domain with regard to copyright, what other places do with regard to a work's copyright status is their choice, and their duty of care." The Pope's letter is in the public domain. ”
“ Hi Adam sk. This is WS, not WP, where we all are community members, and incidentally some of us have admin rights. Please don't turn this into a pissing competition about anything else as that would be your attitude taking over, not ours. The opinions that you are getting are those of experienced community members with lots of works submitted, and really good knowledge about Wikisource and what works well for the site.To the evidence-base, you haven't provided your evidence-base for your links, and without that evidence there is nothing to judge any credibility. ”
“ Cygnis insignis (talk) 07:59, 28 January 2010 (UTC) as it is a tag, so it needs #tag, and then it needs it at both ends for two section tags if only they had thought of an open and close tag liketext . Have a look at User:billinghurst/PotM watch to see the evil output. And that is just for subsequent footnotes. I will park it and think about it on a clear day. I think that for a template that the bulk of the coding will be at the ref tag, use overflow as the default tag, but allow for others. Not today for resolution. ”
“ IMNSHO the page numbering on the left is the most important of the changes as it readily allows someone to get into the work and progress the transcription process for the articles and for the project as a whole. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:24, 4 July 2010 (UTC) I understand your position, I think. However,the "volume=" change is trivially automatable, the "comtributor=" change is fairly mindless but requires human attention, and the link to page space (and appropriate pagination) is much more complex. ”
“ If you wish to run WikEd at WS, then you should be able to enable it into your active javascript file (vector.js or monobook.js) , depending on whichever look you are using) , with the instructions at w:User:Cacycle/wikEd installation#On-wiki installation code. If you don't feel comfortable editing the file, then I can do so for you, I just need to know which skin you are using (look within your Special:Preferences gadgets) . ”
“ Usually people don't follow styles b/c they cannot work out what they are doing, so our legwork with a simplicity outcome will allow this. Anyway we just run a tidy every so often across the pages. Once we have worked out what the hell we want on those pages with text replacement, it is fairly simple to save the AWB criteria and just run them through again. The music of Bohemia.djvu sheet music I would love to add the sheet music for the transcription project, but it isn't in the public domain in the UK. How would the sheet music be uploaded then? ”
“ Always open to good suggestions and ideas; plus if you have works that you have found at http://www.archive.org/ or http:books.google.com/ and you need advice to bring over, call. We would also encourage you to express opinions at Wikisource talk:Proofread of the Month or Wikisource talk:Collaboration of the Week I believe it was you who told me a few weeks ago that we should not "correct" typos or mistakes found in the source, but that there are ways to annotate them. Now I have come across one on a page I am actually working on, and I need to know how to do that. ”
“ It is there to demonstrate the difference. With relation to the naming, we are recommending a generic approach of actual titles being /Volume 1, /Volume 2, ... as in when we come across a reference in another book, we don't want to scramble to look at what we have, and we cannot scramble what we don't have, though may have one day in the work. ”
“ Main namespace is for works, and they all belong at the top level, and may utilise subpages. Author namespace is for the authors, and list their works, and link to appropriate sister sites Wikisource namespace is for select listings of works, usually based on subject matter, and has more flexibility for mixing works and authors. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:12, 19 April 2010 (UTC) Yes, I think I am looking to create a listing for the Breslev subject matter. so I made the page Breslov and put the process header in it. Did I do it right? Thank you. ”
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