United States. Congress

“ We need a Fascist government in this country, he insisted, to save the Nation from the communists who want to tear it down and wreck all that we have built in America. The only men who have the patriotism to do it are the soldiers and Smedley Butler is the ideal leader. He could organize a million men over night.
During the conversation he told me he had been in Italy and Germany during the summer of 1934 and the spring of 1934 and had made an intensive study of the background of the Nazi and Fascist movements and how the veterans had played a part in them. ”

“ The CHAIRMAN. Did you or Doyle suggest his being a delegate from Hawaii?
Mr. MacGuire. As far as I can recall, Mr. Chairman, I think that generally speaking when discussed the possibilities of where he could a delegate from—well, you are a legionnaire, Mr. Chairman, and you understand that in order for a man to be on the floor and have a voice in the convention, he has got to be a delegate. ”

“ Butler's testimony continued by quoting MacGuire as having said: "I have been traveling around, looking around. Now, about this superorganization, would you be interested in heading it?" To which Butler states he replied: "I am interested in it, but I don't know about heading it. I am greatly interested in it, because you know, Jerry, my interest, my one hobby, is maintaining a democracy. If you get these 500,000 soldiers advocating anything smelling of Fascism, I am going to get 500,000 more and lick the hell out of you, and we will have a real war right at home." ”

“ I had a very interesting talk last evening with a man who is quite well up on affairs here and he seems to be of the opinion that the Croix de Feu will be very patriotic during this crisis and will take the cuts or be the moving spirit in the veterans to accept the cuts. Therefore they will, in all probability, be in opposition to the Socialists and functionaries. The general spirit among the functionaries seems to be that the correct way to regain recovery is to spend more money and increase wages, rather than to put more people out of work and cut salaries. ”

“ Mr. MacGuire. Let me get that straight.
The Chairman. Or words to that effect; something about sending telegrams to the delegates at the convention? Mr. MacGuire. No, sir.
The Chairman. Were telegrams sent to the delegates at the convention in connection with the adoption of this resolution to return to the gold standard?
Mr. MacGuire. Not to my knowledge. They were not sent by me. The Chairman. Do you know whether or not any expenses were paid out of this fund, any payments were made for the sending of telegrams to delegates at the convention?
Mr. MacGuire. Telegrams to delegates? ”

“ I am willing to spend half of the $30,000,000 to save the other half. If you go out and make this speech in Chicago, I am certain that they will adopt the resolution and that will be one step toward the return to gold, to have the soldiers stand up for it. We can get the soldiers to go out in great bodies to stand up for it."
This was the first beginning of the idea, you see, of having a soldiers' organization, getting them to go out in favor of the gold standard. Clark's thought was, "I do not want to lose my money." ”

“ There may be more uprisings, there may be more difficulties, but as is evidenced right now when the emergency arises party lines and party difficulties are forgotten as far as France is concerned, and all become united in the one desire and purpose to keep this country as it is, the most democratic, and the country of the greatest freedom in the European Continent. ”

“ MacGuire then, according to Butler's testimony, stated, "Don't you understand, the set-up has got to be changed a bit. We have the President with us now. He has got to have more money. There is no more money to give him. Eighty percent of the money now is in Government bonds and he cannot keep this racket up much longer. He has got to do something about it. He has either got to get more money out of us or has got to change the method of financing the Government, and we are going to see to it that he isn't going to change that method. ”

“ MacGuire, according to Butler, continued that he had gone to Germany to see what Hitler was doing, and found that that situation would not do in the United States either, and that he had been in France, where he found just exactly the organization that we ought to have in this country and called it an organization of "super-soldiers", but that Butler did not remember the French name for that organization. ”

“ They are all here [indicating] . With the return bade to New York, the object then was to form a sound-dollar committee, and, inasmuch as the Legion had gone on record for sound money at the Chicago convention, it was thought then that it would be a very good idea to establish this committee, to get out and talk to the people, and take it up with the Legion, and later on, with the American Federation of Labor, and to take a stand on the sound-dollar policy. ”

“ He is not for the soldiers' either. I am not going to Boston to any dinner given by Governor Ely for the soldiers. If the soldiers of Massachusetts want to give a dinner and want me to come, I will come. But there is no thousand dollars in it."
So he said, "Well, then, we will think of something else."
I said, "What is the idea of Al Smith in this?" "Well" he said, "Al Smith is getting ready to assault the Administration in his magazine. It will appear in a month or so. He is going to take a shot at the money question. He has definitely broken with the President." ”

“ He called up Chicago and got hold of MacGuire at the Palmer House and he said to MacGuire, "General Butler is not coming to the convention. He has given me his reasons and they are excellent ones, and I apologize to him for my connection with it. I am not coming either. You can put this thing across. You have got $45,000. You can send those telegrams. You will have to do it in that way. The general is not coming. I can see why. I am going to Canada to rest. If you want me, you know where you can find me. You have got enough money to go through with it." ”

“ Mr. MACGUIRE. There was talk- I thought that he would be a good man, so did Doyle, for commander of the Legion; and naturally, if you are going to have a man for commander, he has got to be against some people who are also putting a man up.
The CHAIRMAN. What talk did you have with him about the sound dollar and the gold standard? Was the gold standard mentioned?
Mr. MacGuire. No; the gold standard was not mentioned. As a matter of fact, I do not think the gold standard or the sound dollar committee was gone into very much at that particular meeting. ”

“ General Butler, I do not. They just flipped the pages over. Now, I have had some experience as a policeman in Philadelphia. I wanted to get to the bottom of this thing and not scare them off, because I felt then that they had something real. They had so much money and a limousine. Wounded soldiers do not have limousines or that kind of money. They said, "We will pay the bill. Look around and see if you cannot get two or three hundred men and we we’ll bring them out there and we will have accommodations for them." ”

“ In other words he suggested that Roosevelt would be in sympathy with us and proposed the idea that Butler would be named as the head of the C.C.C. camps by the President as a means of building up this organization. He would then have 300,000 men. Then he said that if that did not work the General would not have any trouble enlisting 500,000 men. [deleted2]
During the course of the conversation he continually discussed the need of a man on a white horse, as he called it, a dictator who would come galloping in on his white horse. ”

“ MacGuire denied telling Butler anything about any governmental set-ups in Europe, although he stated that he had told Butler that in his opinion "Hitler would not last another year in Germany and that Mussolini was on the skids ".
MacGuire again emphatically denied that he had said anything about the European veterans. Then MacGuire stated that Paul French had come to him and outlined a lot of things that Butler was trying to do with different veteran outfits in the country, and that he told French that Butler should not be mixed up with that kind of stuff. ”

“ In another letter MacGuire said, “everywhere you go you see men marching in groups and company formation."
MacGuire could not explain why he gave a check for $20,000 to Albert G. Christmas on September 15 and received a check back from Christmas 3 days later for the same amount.
MacGuire admitted cashing a check on his special account for $6,000 on September 16, which was the day before he saw Butler in Newark, not forgetting the $10,000 that MacGuire had received currency from Christmas at the luncheon, which he said he placed in a safety deposit box. ”

“ It was not necessarily that I was going to be busy at the
convention.
Question. Why was it necessary to have on your bills a special notice, "No information to anybody"?
Answer. That is the general custom, Mr. Dickstein, in every contention that people do not want to be bothered. They simply tell the desk that they don't want to have people bother them. It you have certain rooms for certain purposes, that was all that was necessary.
Question. Were you a delegate there?
Answer. No, sir.
Question. Were you an officer ?
Answer. I was on the distinguished guests committee. ”

“ I believe that sooner or later we are going to have a showdown, because I have had so many invitations to head societies and to join societies, all of them with a camouflaged patriotic intent. They are rackets, all of them. ”

“ If anything, it appears to me that the Communists may be used as a goat by the military, and that if this group should by any chance start demonstrations against the government, it may serve to call forth a "coup d'etat", which, it might be said, would be the use of the military. ”

“ While being questioned by both Congressman McCormack and Dickstein, MacGuire suddenly remembered that Clark had given him some money in connection with some bond transactions and fixed the sum at $25,000, which he stated he placed on deposit with the Manufacturers Trust Co., in a "special account", and further stated that Clark had paid his expenses in going around the country looking over various municipalities in connection with the purchase of their bonds. ”

“ During my conversation with him I did not of course commit the General to anything. I was just feeling him along. Later, we discussed the question of arms and equipment, and he suggested that they could be obtained from the Remington Arms Co., on credit through the du Ponts. I do not think at that time he mentioned the connections of du Pont with the American Liberty League, but he skirted all around it. ”

“ This is to sustain him when others assault him."
Butler claims that MacGuire then told him that the President was overworked, that he needed an assistant to take over the many heavy duties, and that such a position would be created and would probably be called "a secretary of general affairs ", and that when all that was accomplished the President of the United States would be like the President of France. ”

“ He said, "I want to go around with you, around the country. I want to go around and talk to the soldiers in the background and see if we cannot get them to join a great big super organization to maintain the democracy." ”

“ About 5 hours later a Packard limousine came up into my yard and 2 men got out. This limousine was driven by a chauffeur. They came into the house and introduced themselves. One said his name was Bill Doyle, who was then the department commander of the Legion in Massachusetts. The other said his name was Jerry MacGuire.
The CHAIRMAN. Where did MacGuire come from?
General BUTLER. MacGuire said he had been State commander the year before of the department of Connecticut and was then living in Connecticut. Doyle was living in Massachusetts. ”

“ Chairman: As I said yesterday, I believe, "when Mr. French came to me, he said, General Butler is, or has, again been approached by two or three organizations—and I think he mentioned one of them as some Vigilante committee of this country—and he said," What do you think of it? w and I think I said to him, "Why, I don't think the General ought to get mixed up with any of those affairs in this country. I think these fellows are all trying to use him; to use his name for publicity purposes, and to get membership, and I think he ought to keep away worn any of these organizations." ”

“ How much money have you got there ", MacGuire is alleged to have replied "$18,000 ", and on further questioning is alleged to have told Butler that he got the money from contributions the night before and has not had an opportunity to deposit them and wanted to give them to Butler for his help.
Butler further testified that he told MacGuire, "Don't you try to give me any thousand-dollar bill, Remember, I was a cop once. Every one of the numbers on these bills has been taken. I know you people and what you are trying to do. ”

“ In view of the fact that he is a man who is located in Wall Street and his particular business is what is known as "fiduciary counsel", he is not in accord with the President's policies, as he sees things and he thinks that eventually his policies are going to be the ruination of the country. ”