“ Middle English belongs with modern English because people still read Chaucer in the original language without specialized training. Anglo-Saxon is opaque in any text without specialized training, every bit as opaque as Cornish (which by the way was spoken in what is English-speaking territory, crushed to death by English.) I don't see why the linguistic details are relevent, and it's no harder to tell whether a text is English (ISO 639-2 eng) than whether it's one of ang, enm, eng, or sco. Simple dates will usually answer the question, until at which point Scots gets its own Wikisource. ”

“ There is no branching at that juncture and most arguments over whether Anglo-Saxon really "belongs" with English can equally apply to Middle English. All the branching come out of Middle English which evolved from Anglo-Saxon, which is where discussions of English literature begin. Since this project is about English literature rather than English dialects, it is strongly apparent to me that it would seem incomplete if it excluded any of the Anglic languages. The pragmatic angle of the issue is that there has never been stronger consensus for any other inclusion criteria than "Anglic". ”

“ Considering that we host texts as written, and considering we host multiple variations of text, the only difference between having a text here or in another subdomain is language of the navigation and system messages. The arguments that support a proliferation of subdomains for other project do not apply to Wikisource. The sheer amount of maintenance work a subdomain requires makes it silly to think of using such a subdomain merely to make up words for computer functions in Anglo-Saxon. en.WS can only benefit from keeping the literary tradition together. ”

“ People cannot simply read Middle English. While I understand Anglo-Saxon is further removed than Middle English is, by simply excluding Anglo-Saxon it will not follow that everything on en.WS is readable to Anglophones. I don't understand how your point that en.WS is not hosting the Gallic languages which were "crushed to death" by the English language has any relevance on whether or not we host texts in an extinct English languages. The Gallic languages aren't even close to English. ”

“ Although I am not sure where your nationalism worries come from; there is no basis in idea that because en.WS hosts a text that de.WS is then forbidden to host it as well. And you don't understand the point of subdomains at all. No language should have a subdomain. Subdomains are built upon communities not languages. The level of community required to get a subdomain up and running is very high and it is even harder to find the dedication to form a community when another subdomain that prospective members find understandable is already in operation. ”

“ The grey area is a strawman. There are a grand total of two or three texts which could be ambiguous as to whether they are Middle English or Anglo-Saxon. That's not a lot of grey. Except in the line between Scots and English, there's not a lot of grey in any cut. Demonstrating that Anglo-Saxon can work here still leaves many languages out in the cold. Cornish and Passamaquoddy speakers, by and large, have English as a second language, not some other Gaelic or Irquoian language. Trying to tie Egyptian into some Semetic language isn't going to be helpful. ”

“ Community is not separable from language, here or elsewhere. Lastly, there's not many Anglo-Saxon documents to worry about, and no new translations*. Unlike a hundred years ago, a student of Anglo-Saxon unfluent in Modern English is quite unlikely, so putting them here hurts nothing. But such arguments also go for Cornish and Passamaquoddy, also languages in solidly English-speaking polities without sufficient communities to create their own Wikisources. ”

“ If you follow the linguistic history of English the group of "Anglic languages" includes all English related and ancestral languages which contain any literature. There is no Anlo-Frisian literature, no Germanic literature, no Indo-European literature. So it is a logical inclusive group to use for a project focused on English writings. Also I would point out that Anglo-Saxon became Middle English without exception. ”

“ Scots should certainly have its own Wikisource, as a modern language, and if there's ever Scots speakers who want to open up a sco.Wikisource, I'd support it. Works in another language may be eviscerated by translation to English, but that doesn't make Anglo-Saxon comprehendable to English speakers. The full literary tradition of English literature includes most of French, Latin, and Ancient Greek literature; in fact, many works of great English literature have been written in French and Latin. ”

“ The computerese mentality is often more about making data fit the templates than about accommodating templates to varying data sets. Sometimes the most effective way to do things is to do them, and wait for people to object, but, understandably, there are drawbacks to that approach. The critics will claim that you are contravening some consensus, but that consensus was never anything more than inertia. ”

“ Why exclude any anglic texts?--BirgitteSB 18:59, 27 March 2009 (UTC) What effect has Anglo-Saxon literature had on Modern English literature? Virtually none. Modern English uses different poetic styles (no alliterative poetry) ; if there's allusions to Anglo-Saxon literature it's to Beowulf, which you've basically admitted is minor. The effect Anglo-Saxon literature as a whole has had on Modern English literature doesn't begin to compare to the effects that French literature has; heck, Italian, even Arabic and Norwegian literatures have had a larger impact. ”

“ Since bots are not supposed to change the page status, it is hard to imagine how djvutext.py might be updated in light of the new "without text" status. It seems to me that {{blank page}} should be retained as the method by which OCR bots may tag a page as putatively blank. A human editor can then validate the page as blank, set the status, and remove the {{blank page}} tag. This line of reasoning suggests that {{blank page}} should now categorise into a maintenance category such as Category:Putatively blank pages awaiting validation. ”

“ Beowulf was unknown in English literature until the late 18th century and part of the German literary landscape as much as the English. Anglo-Saxon make be conveniently stored here, but the connection is a nationalist one as much as a linguistic one, and far more than any literary connection that could be made.--Prosfilaes (talk) 10:31, 27 March 2009 (UTC) I really can't agree that anything I support is connected with any sort of nationalism, nor that the the literary connection between Anlgo-Saxon and Modern English is minor, whatever the provenance of one particular poem is. ”

“ It does start to solve the problem. It certainly doesn't finish the solution for all languages, but it does take care of all the English languages. And demonstrating it can work here may very well lead to further solutions if other Wikisources adopt our example. ”

“ It is just not feasible without a community. The guy who started the thread is much better off uploading texts here, where the texts are all he must worry about. Opening ang.WS would do him no favor. He probably doesn't understand what he is really asking and it wouldn't be supported for one person even if we refused to host Anglo-Saxon here. ”

“ Put the formatting commands that you want to appear in the transclusion in the body, and use the header and footer sections to apply the remaining formatting to the individual pages. For example, you could mark up three Page: pages as
Page 1 Body: Start formatting Text Footer: End formatting Page 2 Header: Start formatting Body Text Footer End formatting Page 2 Header: Start formatting Body Text End formatting Since the headers and footers don't get transcluded, the mainspace transclusion ends up looking like
Start formatting Text Text Text End formatting Hope that helps. ”

“ We do better by remaining open to various possibilities. In large measure we do better to avoid hosting Latin and French texts, but we occasionally need to allow for exceptions. Eclecticology - the offended (talk) 18:02, 28 March 2009 (UTC) Let's clear up some strawmen. I am unaware of anyone, now or in the past discussions on this topic, who is promoting the creation of new Anglo-Saxon texts through translation. There isn't anyone supporting the inclusion of Anglic languages who has ever suggested including Cornish or other languages which exist territorially adjacent to English languages. ”

“ Specifically:
should they be collected onto one page, e.g., An Essay in Defence of the Female Sex/Letters; or should each comprise its own page within the book, e.g., An Essay in Defence of the Female Sex/Letter 1, etc.; or should each comprise its own Wikisource entry, e.g., James Drake letter to the most ingenious Mrs. — or her admirable defence of her sex, but be included in the previous/next sequence in the header template? I'm leaning toward the second option. You may also have noticed what appears to be a typo in "...or her admirable Defence..." ”

“ I hope therefore the burthen of this good Quality will not hereafter be laid upon us alone, but the Men will be contented to divide the Load with us, and be thankful that they bear less than their Proportion. ”

“ Using one's best judgement is about as much as can be expected of anyone here. Good linking takes an awful lot of work. To know whether you have linked correctly you need to test your links, and on each use when the same link is used more than once; this also works for catching typos in a link, as in the one to w:Russell Feingoldl. The link to w:Dan Boren works just fine. but if the documents you are working on show him as David something like [ [w:Dan Boren|David Boren] ] may still be needed. ”

“ My guess is that he wants to insulate if from the translation messages, so that something weird in the translation couldn't cause a vulnerability for that language, since they probably aren't checked for that, and there's really no way to protect against vulnerabilities in the site scripts. If that seems likely but we're not sure, I guess we can file a bug, then fix it if nobody complains. -Steve Sanbeg (talk) 23:23, 18 June 2009 (UTC) {{blank page}} versus "without text" The new "without text" status doesn't work unless the page text is completely empty. ”

“ I very much agree with the principles that you outlined, but see Wikisource:Proposed deletions#Category:Acts of the Parliament of the Province of Canada. The ad hoc approach is rampant, and attempts to incorporate a broad conceptual structure tend not to gather a sufficient critical mass of participants to bring about implementation. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the resistance is willful; it is more an all too common human inability to step back and look at things in a broader context. ”

“ Dear fellow admins, please feel free to improve as I give everyone a head start.--Jusjih (talk) 23:22, 23 June 2009 (UTC) I just color-coded the year display modeled after Chinese Wikisource and formatted with the words like "in the year 1890" as at How the Other Half Lives while "1890" alone might not be clear enough. Hopefully someone can run a bot to integrate separate [ [Category:xxxx works] ] into the revised header.--Jusjih (talk) 02:21, 24 June 2009 (UTC) While the general principle of having a year in the header is a good one, we still need to ask, "Which year?" ”

“ If they are generally so edited and abdridged on wikisource , I think we should state that they are in the interest of clarity and accuracy. All it says presently is that there may be some grammatical errors. Thanks! - Capitalismojo (talk) 12:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Expectation is that it is a reproduction of a work, or a standalone component. Summaries and abridgements are not our reason for being. We may need to check whether there is an official abridged version, though we would then identify it as such, and most likely set up a {{disambiguation}} page. ”

“ Agree with Ec about meeting our inclusion criteria. Comment about usefulness. The more thought and effort that is put into the work: in terms of scanning; uploading the work to Commons: in DjVu format and then Side by Side formatting; isolating images; and then having a Wikisource: namespace page like Wikisource:Spirella increases the usefulness. ”

“ When I have done such, I put section marks inside the formatting of that done on the Page: namespace, and then transclude it into new formatting in the main namespace. Here is an example of a page in columns, that is single rows in main namespace. Page:List of Carthusians 1800-1879.djvu/296 List of Carthusians, 1800–1879/1827 List of Carthusians, 1800–1879/1828 List of Carthusians, 1800–1879/1829 Note that in the main namespace pages, that I use different types of #LST transclusion so that I only get the page marker once. Happy to play if that helps. ”