Henry Kissinger

“ The entire world is amidst intense turbulence and unrest. This reflects the sharpening of various contradictions and is something independent of man's will. The history of mankind always moves forward amidst turmoil. In our view, such turmoil is a good thing, and not a bad thing.
The Chinese and American peoples have always been friendly to each other. After more than two decades of estrangement, the door was opened for exchanges between the two countries, and the friendly relations between the two peoples have developed. ”

“ It is probably true that troops that disappear from one area will not disappear from the world. We face here the irony that the best way for the United States to keep very substantial forces in Europe is to agree to a very small reduction with the Soviet Union, because this reduces pressure from the internal Left. ”

“ We will not permit a strategic gain for Soviet power. We will attempt to reduce Soviet power where we can. We do not, however.... At the same time we go through many stages which create either diplomatic obstacles to the extension of Soviet power or which psychological and political obstacles against Soviet military action. We do not intend to create a condominium with the Soviet Union, because such a policy -- by removing all obstacles to Soviet expansion -- would eventually, with certainty, turn against us. ”

“ With respect to our general views on normalization, and this is one of the topics we can discuss with greater precision when we meet in smaller groups, I simply wanted to say that we are prepared to discuss seriously and in an attempt to meet the time limit we previously discussed in my past meetings with the Prime Minister [Chou En-lai] .
The second category of problems is our usual detailed review of the international situation. The press always asks me before I come here whether I am coming to reassure the Chinese. They also always tell me that our relationship has deteriorated. ”

“ We have done nothing new along the borders, and frankly we don't fear that India will attack our borders. We don't think they have the capability of attacking our borders. There was some very queer talk, some said that the reason why the Chinese Government issued that statement about Sikkim was that the Chinese were afraid after Sikkim that India would complete the encirclement of China. Well, in the first place, we never feel things like isolation or encirclement can ever matter very much with us. And particularly with India, it is not possible that India can do any encirclement of China. ”

“ And if they are going to attack China, as the Chairman has discussed [with you] , it will be impossible to take over China with just one million troops. They will have to increase their troops by one million, and even that would not be sufficient because if they are going to make up their minds to fight with China, they will have to make up their minds to fight for 20 years. The Chinese have no great virtue, but they do have [the virtue of] patience. ”

“ On the bilateral issues, if I could perhaps say one word before the experts get carried away with their enthusiasm: Such issues as the bilateral exchanges and cultural agreements are essentially a symbolic aspect of our foreign policy, of our political relations, and therefore we will deal with them in this context. Frankly I am indifferent as to whether there is a million dollars more or less in settling the question of blocked accounts, or whether one group more or less goes back and forth between the United States and China. We should use these as a symbol of our overall relationship. ”

“ He is tougher, but what the Europeans really want is to have it for themselves, but they don't have the power. When we were tough on the Soviet Union, they pandered to their left as holding back a wild US, and they kept running to the Soviet Union. We are best off keeping the Europeans to the right of us. ”

“ I spend considerable time stressing our military strength and the advantages of the agreement you made in Vladivostok. That meeting, by the way, has clearly gotten the Chinese attention and I believe is helping us enormously on this visit. The Chinese also emphasized the need for Europe to keep up its guard at which point I emphasized that the demoralization of Europe through the oil crisis is not in the Chinese interest. We could go it alone on economic grounds, but we were cooperating with our friends in order to shore up Western unity and defenses. ”

“ We live in a period of great change and a period that is characterized by much upheaval. We believe that this change must lead to a new and better order for all of the peoples of the world, and it is to this goal that American foreign policy is dedicated.
We consider the exchanges on these subjects as well as others with the leaders of the People's Republic of China of the greatest consequence. ”

“ For the United States to take strong actions in crises, it is necessary to do so from a position of having demonstrated to our people that we have exhausted every avenue for peace. I think Chairman Mao, last year, said the United States plays complicated games, and China too plays complicated games, but more energetically. ”

“ I believe among our American friends here there are some who are very familiar with Chinese history and know it was a concept for many years that Kiangsi people couldn't fight. And it turned out that when the people in Kiangsi knew what they were fighting for, they turned out to be the best fighters. And in America, people had the impression that people in Indochina couldn't fight. ”

“ It can only be the Japan model.
The second principle is that after the United States abolishes the defense treaty it signed with Chiang Kai-shek, the Taiwan problem should be left to the Chinese people themselves to solve; it is an internal matter for China, in which no one has the right to interfere.
The third principle is that in the course of the solution of the Taiwan question by the Chinese themselves, there should be no other country which should be allowed to interfere in the solution of the problem. ”

“ Their proposals were put forward under the circumstances that the treaty still exists, our treaty of mutual assistance still exists. So it seems that the Soviet policy of hostility against China has not changed. And, of course, this doesn't exclude more tricks, such as asking this person or that person to come and mediate, but it doesn't change the essence [of China's dispute with the Soviets] . The methods that they continue to use are military threat and subversion. And they will continue their tricks such as the Asian Collective Security system. ”

“ I pointed out that it was inconsistent for the Chinese to want us to have an active foreign policy in order to counter Moscow, while at the same time China attacked us publicly in such areas as the Middle East, where we are trying to erode Soviet influence, and the energy situation, whose weakening of the West could not be in China's interest. ”

“ China and the United States have different social systems, and there are differences between us on a series of matters of principle. But this does not hinder us from finding common ground on certain matters. It is always beneficial for the two sides to have candid exchanges of views and increase mutual understanding. On the whole, Sino-American relations have in these years been moving ahead. ”

“ This in no way means that we do not want to solve this issue as early as possible between the United States and China. It does not mean from a moral and political point of view that we have no right to demand or ask an early solution. As I mentioned in our earlier discussion on this issue, it is you who are not deflecting to us. ”

“ He gets many arms from the Soviet Union, but he is a realist. At any rate, I mention him only because even he has understood that under conditions of pressure the United States diplomacy will not operate. And he has now agreed to the extension of the United Nations forces in Syria, and we are going to ask Austria to introduce a resolution which he has worked out with us, and which, for your information, Israel has already accepted. ”

“ I replied that while we understood China's ideological support of the third world, at some point this ran up against China's real concerns about security. (I meant this as a general point, given China's policy of hitting us in international forums on behalf of the third world, while simultaneously dealing with us as a counter-weight to the Soviet Union.) If the oil prices demoralized Europe and Japan and weakened their defenses, this would surely not be in China's interest. Nor should these countries be dependent on forces outside their control. ”

“ It has nothing to do with the People's Republic of China.
Teng: I would like to raise a question. We have heard the Doctor say that the recent meeting and the recent signing of such an agreement was a great breakthrough. Was it really so? To be more specific -- how reliable can it be -- how reliable are the prospects for ten years of detente and a cease of competition in the military field?
Kissinger: First of all, you have to understand that we have to fight on many fronts. And our domestic strategy is to isolate our left, if that is a proper thing to say in the People's Republic. ”

“ We want to avoid a situation where the United States signs a document which leads to a military solution shortly after normalization. But we do not want a commitment which maintains the separation. What we have in mind -- we may not know the formula, but what we have in mind seems compatible with what Chairman Mao says in terms of the process.
Vice Premier Teng: We have just now checked on what Chairman Mao exactly said when he talked with Doctor, and we understand what he said is, "I don't think the normalization of relations between China and the United States will take one hundred years." ”

“ No one wants it except the Soviet Union. They have an Ambassador in Geneva, Vinogradov, who spends all his time waiting for a conference that doesn't take place. We occasionally send Ambassador Bunker once every two months to keep him company there doing nothing. But we have not agreed on a resumption date. The earliest I could foresee would be March -- unless there is a total breakdown in the secret discussions now going on between Egypt and Israel and the other Arab countries and Israel through us. ”

“ Or, we can do a process in which we complete the political part of our relationship quickly and make it clear that we are solving the issues of sovereignty -- of one China and one Taiwan -- at once, and find a formula in which the symbolic thought of Chairman Mao is expressed. An effort of peaceful reintegretation over a reasonable period of time. We do not want a voice in the discussion on peaceful reintegration. That should be left to the Chinese. ”

“ You know we have made no effort with any country to keep them from establishing relations with you and breaking them with Taiwan.
The problem we have is the impact internationally of a sudden total reversal of an American position on other friendly countries, and even perhaps on countries that are not friendly to either of us.
Vice Premier Teng: But on the other hand, if we agree to your formula we will also be creating an impact internationally that we have agreed to the formula of one China - one Taiwan. ”

“ Khrushchev introduced Gromyko to us, and he told us that Gromyko had a lot of things in his pocket. And Khrushchev told us that this fellow Gromyko could produce this formula today, and tomorrow, and he has so many things he can produce that that is his major trait -- that was Khrushchev's introduction of Gromyko. And it seems that Brezhnev has learned that trait from Gromyko and has a lot of things in his pocket too.
As for our dealings with the Soviet Union, we do not rely on our nuclear weapons. And we don't have very much skill other than digging tunnels and having rifles. ”

“ But your increase is proportionately much smaller than the Soviet Union.
Kissinger: That is true. But I think it would be extremely dangerous for the Soviet Union. First of all, in Europe, the Soviet Union could not achieve a decisive victory without a very large battle and in those circumstances we would use nuclear weapons.
Teng: But under those conditions, where the Soviet Union has the same destructive strength as you, would it be easy for you to make up your minds?
Kissinger: The Soviet Union does not have the same destructive force as we. ”

“ Habib then commented on the problem of a definition of the assets, saying that he wished first to briefly review its history. In the February 1973 draft, there was language which met our needs. In March, the Chinese side presented a revised draft which eliminated some of our language. Since then, we have made an effort to find a way to meet our needs that would be acceptable to the Chinese side. This is not a side issue, nor is it a new one. Our purpose is merely to find language acceptable to both sides. ”

“ What we would like to achieve is the disassociation from Taiwan in steps, in the manner we have done until now. There is no doubt that the status of Taiwan has been undermined by the process which we have followed. And this process would be rapidly accelerated by the ideas which we have advanced.
Vice Premier Teng: And the other question is the way method to solve the Taiwan problem. As for solving the Taiwan question, suppose you have broken diplomatic relations with Taiwan. Then the Taiwan question should be left with us Chinese to solve among ourselves. ”