House of Lords

“ Does Wheat in New South Wales bear generally a high Price?
A very high Price. I furnished myself Part of a Contract for the Government, 20,000 Bushels, in 1836, at the Time that Starvation stared us in the Face. I undertook the Contract. I imported it from Calcutta. The Country has never been able to produce sufficient Wheat to supply the Inhabitants, and it never will. It is a very fine Country, but it is quite a pastoral one. I have always compared New Zealand, and still do so, to be just as Great Britain is to the rest of Europe, –the great Country of that Part of the World. ”

“ If you permitted Persons to purchase Land you would afford Security to the Natives to prevent their selling a certain Part which they might require for their own Use?
Most decidedly. I think that Europeans should not take that Land from them; in fact they would never consent to it. Do you think they would become Agriculturists?
Certainly; they cultivate uncommonly well now; they fence in their Land, and cultivate with much Regularity; their Potatoes are cultivated better than by many of our Settlers in New South Wales. ”

“ I see in 1837, since I have been home, my Firm in Sydney, being the Agent for Parties who are cultivating in Poverty Bay large Quantities of Maize, Wheat, and Potatoes, trading for Flax, Pork, Hogs Lard, Whalebone, Oil, and every thing the Country abounds in; a Variety of Products which are very valuable and useful. Does it appear to you that the Soil is adapted for the Cultivation of Wheat?
Yes; for the finest Wheat in the World. New South Wales is not a Wheat Country; but I have seen very large plump Grain from New Zealand. New Zealand is not subject to Droughts. ”

“ The Population of the Northern Island is certainly very great; the Southern is much more thinly populated; quite a different Race of Men; they are much blacker; they are a very inferior Race of Men altogether. I had an Idea of colonizing Cloudy Bay myself.
Where is that?
That is on the Southern Island. What deterred you from that?
The Circumstance of Captain Stewart having gone down to assist those Natives deterred me; I was afraid to go among them after that. I expected that they would take every Ship connected with New South Wales and Great Britain. ”

“ I think they have done some Good in civilizing the New Zealander, at the same Time enriching themselves. I am very anxious to see the New Zealander civilized. Are you aware whether there are any Missionaries in that Country from Roman Catholics?
I do not think there are any whatever. Some of the Natives do make a little Fun of the Missionaries; but I think certainly they have done some Good. Are they not generally respected by the Natives of the Country?
I think they are. I have seen some of them come up to New South Wales; the Natives appear to pay great Respect to them. ”

“ I had One or Two of the Natives in Sydney in my own House, well-behaved Men, but not from that Part of the Island; I should hardly trust them, expecting they have contracted the bad Habits of a great Portion of Individuals who frequent the Bay of Islands. ”

“ I have had them down in the Cabin of the Ship, and shown them a Chart of the World, and after Two or Three Days they have told me, that is New Zealand, that is England, that is South America, that is New South Wales; they are very quick. They build very fine Canoes. They frequently cross over from the Northern Island to the Southern Island across Cook's Straits, and they will for some Days study the Appearances of the celestial Hemisphere before they venture. It is only from public Report you know that the Missionaries have purchased large Tracts of Land? ”

“ They do not labour because Nature has provided them so abundantly. Have you been yourself cognizant of any Purchases of Land made by Europeans?
I have not purchased Land myself, but when I was at Kaffea I obtained a Grant of Land from a Chief, which I have here; it is a very small Quantity: it was under a Condition that I should establish a mercantile Establishment there. I did not purchase it; it was given to me. Are there only Natives there?
No; there were Two or Three White Men, but I suspect they are runaway Convicts from New South Wales. ”

“ By the Natives; they mix in the Boats; they are very good Whalers. Have they any Whale Boats of their own?
No; they are employed by Europeans, by the Mercantile Establishments in New South Wales. Do they hire themselves for Wages?
Yes. Is it for Money Wages?
Those that have come over to Sydney, who enlist themselves on board a Whaler, sign Articles, and have their Pay like all the other Sailors. Every Whaler that goes out of Sydney, from the Captain down to the Apprentice, has an Interest in every thing caught on board ”

“ I dare say they have had Europeans going down and giving it them. They have certain Customs among them in which some of the Traders assist them. If a Ship goes down there they take their Women Slaves on board; they, the Europeans, take them for the Advantage of the Ship; they are considered to protect the Ship; every Man down to the Captain has his One, Two, or Three Women.
You do not believe that the Depopulation among the Natives goes on so rapidly that within the last Thirty Years whole Districts have become almost depopulated? ”

“ I think, with the Exception of myself and some others, very few Gentlemen have ever visited the Country. There are a great many bad Characters on the Island; but they are well able to distinguish between the Gentlemen and the Individuals alluded to. ”

“ How many Days did it take to go from Sydney?
I think we were about Seven Days; we had strong Westerly Winds. The Wesleyan Missionaries are more on that Side of the Island than the other, are they not?
They are; there are a great many at Hokianga, and I have no Doubt there are Rivers in Kaffea Harbour that join the Hokianga. Is the Timber that they use for Canoes likely to be a valuable Export? ”

“ Any Person of the least Understanding can see at once the Distinction between the Chiefs and the others; they are a very fine Race of Men. There is not the Signature of the Chief to the Grant you have put in? ”

“ After visiting One or Two Places I reached Entry Island in my own Vessel, and there I boarded a Brig called the Elizabeth, Captain Stewart, who related the following Circumstance to me, that he had been down to Banks's Island with a great many of the Chiefs, and 200 Men of the Island (Entry Island) , to revenge the Death of an old Chief, who had been Twenty-two Years ago killed by the opposite Party. The Elizabeth, a British Brig, conveyed to Banks's Island about 300 Men, and when she anchored off the Island it was made to appear there were no Men on board the Vessel ”

“ They are the most lazy idle People I ever saw. They have the Fern Root growing there, which is their principal Food, and that is almost equal to Flour; Abundance of Pigs, Fish, and many Vegetables originally introduced by our great Cook the Navigator. You say they are an idle People ”

“ I had them struck off; but still he was kept confined on board, being afraid of our own Lives while he was on board, after his Treatment. You state that you think it would be better the English should have Possession of the Islands; do you mean better for the English or the Natives?
I think it would be better for all Parties. I have seen the Savages of New Holland; they are a very unimportant Number, for they may be all put into a Basket, compared to those in New Zealand; they are Persons hardly deserving of any Trouble; they are just like so many Beasts of the Field ”

“ I do not think there are many Diseases among them; it is only their Wars have depopulated them: it is a very beautiful Climate. Did you never hear that the Population was very much affected by the Venereal Disease? ”

“ Are they tenacious of the Possession of that Power?
I think they like to keep it to themselves as far as they possibly can. Is there any common or general Authority, or are the Chieftains supreme within their respective Districts? ”

“ Some of the Chiefs coming on board, seeing her Guns, were rather suspicious, and the first Question they asked was whether the Ropera and Ecou were on board; they suspected they were, and took to their Canoes; immediately after this they (the Men stowed below) all came on Deck, and took some Canoes, full of Slaves, lying alongside the Vessel, made them Prisoners, proceeded to the Shore, and commenced Battle; and Ecou himself took the great Mara Nui that killed his Father, brought him Prisoner on board the Brig, and they killed several on shore. ”

“ I should think that was very bleak and cold, and not fit for settling; it is a very mountainous Country; a Range of Mountains runs through the whole Island. The People are not apparently the same Race? ”