House of Lords

“ The English frequently will purchase Land for their Convenience, and endeavour to have the Forest of Cowrie within the Trust. Do you know whether the Natives generally seek out the Settlements of Europeans, and establish themselves near the Whites?
No; I have not known any Instance of that; but the Whites generally seek out the Natives, and place themselves near them, in order to have promiscuous Intercourse with the Women; and they live in their Houses, and not in those built by themselves. Do you refer to those who have bought Land?
Those Persons build Houses upon their own Land. ”

“ There is a great Difference between the Appearance of the Natives of New Zealand and the Natives of Australia. The Natives of Australia are very inferior in point of Intellect; their Foreheads are very flat, and recede very much, and they are weakly in Appearance. ”

“ No, not on the Part of a White; but if a Slave has promiscuous Intercourse with the Chief's Wives it is considered a great Offence, and he is punished with Death. Do you think the Slaves in the Hands of Europeans are treated as well as with the Natives?
They are better treated generally, setting aside the Instruction; but they will not stay with any Person who will not instruct them; they run away. They are better treated in other respects?
Yes. Do they purchase Slaves with the Property? ”

“ I should fancy that from One or Two being in every Tribe, and in many Five or Six, exclusive of the Missionaries, and who call themselves respectable English People; those have Shops there, and Stores for Ships, and such like Things. Though they join with the European Sailors in general against the Missionaries, yet they are a little superior to the other, at the same Time they have no Influence with the Natives when there is any Difficulty between any Two of the Natives or any One Native and either of the English People ”

“ I cannot say, for almost all the runaway Convicts did that when they could. They are settled at the Bay of Islands?
Whenever they could purchase Grog from the Vessels, they sold it to the Chiefs or anybody. Whenever one of them had a small Keg of Rum, he made it known to the others; so that every one there in his Turn was a Grog Shopkeeper. You state that there were 400 or 500 European Sailors and Convicts?
Yes. Some of those are settled among the Tribes?
Yes. Are the others that live in their own Houses a great Number? ”

“ There is an Instance of their thinking the Land to be perfectly secure in the Possession of the English, where one of the Missionaries, I do not exactly know the minute History of the Fact, has purchased a large Spot of Ground about the Kirikiri, where I have been to see a Waterfall. The Tribe had emigrated from that Spot to the East Cape, a Distance of 400 or 500 Miles; they had left the Place entirely. There are hardly any native Houses now about the Kirikiri, where Shunghi the principal Chief, who came to England some time ago, lived. The Natives are a very fine Race of People ”

“ I understand Cororareka Beach is proverbially one of the lowest Places,—one of the most degraded of any, even amongst the Natives themselves, and the Women are very much affected with the Venereal Disease, which is of the most virulent Kind. I apprehend there is not One in Fifty of the Women without the Venereal Disease, and that One, perhaps, may be the Wife of a Chief. ”

“ Where you find a Tribe at all under the Influence of Christianity, do you find that it is a divided Worship, or that they have thrown away their Idols?
That they have entirely thrown away their Idols; and some have built Churches of their own Accord. The Church at Paihia is Three Times the Size of this Room; I have seen that quite full; and I have seen Canoes going on the Sunday Morning with Natives to various Villages around; the Canoe had perhaps Five or Six Natives going together ”

“ If they could get any Person to teach them the various Arts, for instance, the Medical Profession, they would be very glad indeed, and would esteem it a very high Favour. They used to hold out as an Inducement that they would give me any Spot of Land I thought proper to select out of the Chief's Territory if I would teach them the Medical Profession, or how to heal all Diseases. ”

“ Do the Missionaries know any thing of Surgery?
Mr. William Williams was brought up a Surgeon. Does he reside in the same Settlement as his Brother?
Yes; they have both a great Influence, but Mr. Henry Williams takes the lead in almost all Cases ; he is a very intelligent Man; he has been a Lieutenant in the English Navy, and perhaps that has given him a more determined Character in the Eyes of the Natives. ”

“ But it is invariably the Case that all the Ships there, speaking generally, have Women on board in great Numbers. The Missionaries take very little Pains with that Class of Persons?
Not the slightest; they do not attempt it. They have every possible Ridicule cast upon them by those People; they have abandoned every Attempt to improve them, and merely act with the Natives. They have given up arguing with the Masters of Vessels, finding it entirely fruitless. In what Language is the Communication carried on between the Missionaries and the Natives? ”

“ Spirituous Liquors are now very generally introduced in New Zealand, are they not?
They are. Are the Natives often seen in a State of Intoxication?
The Chiefs are frequently seen in a State of Intoxication, but the others are not able to purchase Spirits sufficiently; they are anxious to get something of more Value Have not those Persons who have gone over from this Country to reside there been productive of very serious Evil to the Natives? ”

“ Nothing can be of more considerable Hindrance to the Progress of Religion among the Natives than that they throw every Obstacle they can in the Way of the Spread of Christian Doctrines, by all Sorts of Falsehood and Calumny. ”

“ They may possess Land independent of the principal Chief; I believe that is the Fact in some Instances. You understood no Inferior possessed of Land can sell it without the Consent of the Head of his Tribe?
I believe not. What Number of European Traders, do you suppose, there are settled in New Zealand?
They are much more numerous now than when I was there; when I was there there were at the Bay itself about Five. By Traders, you mean those who sold Stores to Ships or Vessels of that Kind? ”

“ Any Person being sent to them in the Medical Profession would have great Influence with them, and I should say more in the Medical Profession than any other. The Missionary Character stands very high; it is impossible for it to stand higher than it does. Was it within your Knowledge whether the Missionaries have occupied Lands much there?
Yes, they have purchased some Spots of Land there; and Mr. Henry Williams was going then to purchase a Spot in the Neighbourhood of Waimati for his Children. Can you describe the Transaction which took place which you consider amounting to purchase? ”

“ Do you think they would be willing to allow Persons to make Laws preventing their taking Women on board those Ships, and getting a Profit from those Women?
That perhaps they would not, in consequence of the Emolument being taken away. They would view it in that Light. If they were to have a Compensation for it they would immediately refrain from sending their Women there for the sake of Emolument. Those Women are Slaves?
Chiefly; but they take their own Daughters, even the Chief's Daughters and their own Wives, except their principal Wife. ”

“ It is in consequence of the Wars. If they take any Chiefs they become Slaves; but if they marry some of the Chieftains Relations, some of the chief Women, they are then denominated as Chieftains; and their Consent must be given so far as to sell any Portion of the Land which has been conquered. ”

“ The Natives of New Zealand are very bold, stout, and athletic; some of the Men are Six Feet high, and stout in proportion: Titori was of that Description; one of the finest Men I ever saw. Were there many Vessels there during the Time you were there?
From Thirty to Forty at one Time; English and American. Are the Harbours good?
The Harbours are called good, but certainly rather open. What Harbours?
The Bay of Islands, for instance, where Vessels anchor at Three different Places; Tipuna, Cororareka, and Cowa Cowa. At Cororareka is a small Beach ”

“ Sometimes they do; sometimes they threaten them with so much Vengeance that they are glad to let them go away; they threaten to bring the Ship alongside and give them a Broadside; and in various Islands they do that, but in New Zealand it has not been done so frequently, and perhaps from the determined Character of the Natives. I recollect one Captain who had been in the Sandwich Islands; I heard him relate the Tale himself; his Mate quarrelled, and the Natives detained him; the Missionaries thought he ought to pay for the various Debts he had contracted ”

“ In small detached Parcels, generally; that at the Kiri Kiri is, I understand, one of the largest; it was one of the largest when I was there ; but I have since heard there are very large Tracts sold lately. In speaking of the Sales of Land, there are Two Sorts of Chiefs, the upper and inferior Chiefs?
There are. Can the inferior Chiefs sell the Land without the Consent of their Superiors?
No; they are not capable of selling any Spot of Land without the Consent of the superior Chief, if there is any Claim upon it. ”

“ I have been in their Schools on the Sundays; they have Day Schools only for their own Children. I have been in the Sunday School where they taught their own Children and the native Children together; the native Children appeared to make as great Progress as their own Children. Are the Children of Slaves allowed to attend? ”

“ Sometimes there are inferior Chiefs in Possession of Land under the Protection of the Superior, and they have been Chieftains at some former Time, but having been weakened in Battle have thrown themselves under the Protection of the principal Chief. ”

“ Frequently the English will go to the Masters of Vessels; they first of all barter with the Natives, and take their Women on board, and get the highest Price they can for them. One Man I know was in the habit of taking Pigs and Women at the same Time to Vessels; selling the Pigs and the Use of the Women for the Time being all in one Lot; the Women were to return again. Sometimes the Women go to Sea with the Masters of Vessels. Two or Three Instances I know of Masters of Vessels giving as much to their Women as would amount to about 100l. ”

“ They had Horses brought from Sydney, when the Natives saw that the Horses could not pass through the various Tracts from Piar to Wynatte they in consequence made little Bridges and Roads for their Accommodation: this was all done by the Natives exclusively for Use of Missionaries, and frequently have I seen the Natives perform Acts of Kindness towards them; one Man especially, who went out sometime before I went there with an Army to the East Cape. Having conquered their Opponents, one Woman had her Husband and Two Children killed. ”

“ Frequently during the Time of Intercourse they give them Presents. A Chief sometimes has a Payment beforehand; and sometimes the Women have a Payment beforehand, a Cotton Shirt, or something in the Shape of a Petticoat, given them, just to wear while they are on board; they are very fond of having any thing of the Kind, to appear as much as they can in the European Garb. ”

“ About the East Cape in general; they are warm. What is the general Character and Appearance of the Natives?
They are very fine stout healthy Men; very majestic in their Walk and Contour in general. In such Cultivation as you saw did you make Observation upon the Sort of Implements they use?
Their Implements now are English Implements, the Spade and Mattock and Pickaxe. Did they appear desirous to get them?
Yes; they would part with any thing they possessed for them; their Pigs and Potatoes and Indian Wheat they will give up for any thing of that Kind. Blankets also were taken in exchange. ”

“ The Productions of the Country are very few Potatoes, and Indian Wheat; they regularly live upon those; they are almost the sole Things, excepting the Months before the digging of Potatoes, then they have nothing but the Root of the Fern, which they bruise up and bake, which is productive of great Injury to them, producing Constipation of the Bowels to a very great Extent. ”

“ Their Diseases are something like our Diseases, with the Exception of Scrofula being perhaps more abundant there, and cutaneous Affections of a very malignant Kind,—one of the most malignant of the cutaneous Affections we meet with; they know how to treat it; they bathe in the sulphureous Lakes when they can, and they are aware that if they go there they will be cured; they know no other Remedy ”

“ A Piece of that may be handed down from one Generation to another as a Relic of very great Value; if a Chief has received it from his Great Grandfather, or some very great Chief before him, he esteems it, and will not part with it on any Condition. ”

“ Henry Williams especially, if he is at home; he has always the Preference, and indeed he is so esteemed among them that they have frequently offered to make him a Chief, which he has at all Times rejected; I know that to be the Case; it was done when I was there. I attended Mrs. Busby, the British Resident's Lady, there, and put her to bed of her first Child, and a Day or Two afterwards they came to plunder the Place, and shot at the House several Times. The Natives? ”

“ Perhaps on one of his best Spots he would get Three or Four Muskets and Three or Four Axes, and a Barrel of Powder. Mr. Trapp's Spot contains 80 or 100 Acres, and he gave but a Trifle for it; it is not one of the best Spots; but I think it was a Barrel of Powder and some Tobacco he gave. He had not the Power of giving much. He gave a Musket for cutting the Wood and carrying it down to build his House, which he built himself. Supposing a Man commits an Outrage, how is that Man tried ”