House of Lords

“ We have every Reason to fear they will; the Whaling Vessels are so well suited for that Purpose, to be converted into piratical Vessels; the Nature of the Crews likewise, from their disorderly and unmanageable Description; they are almost always in a State of Mutiny when they go into Harbour. What Temptation will any one have to convert a Whaler into a piratical Vessel there?
The great Chance they would have of capturing Vessels from and to New South Wales. The great Chance would be of capturing Vessels at Sea; but not of plundering the Inhabitants of New Zealand? ”

“ In point of fact, do you not know that some of the Missionaries have more Influence in New Zealand than any other Persons in the Country? They have; but the native Dealings with the Missionaries are with the whole Body; as such the Missionaries cannot know the Character of the Native, and they do not know the Character of the People among whom they are; it is only the Traders, like myself and others, who can know them. Are not the Missionaries in the habit of going among the People?
If a Native insults One Missionary he insults the whole Body. A Man comes down with Hogs and Potatoes ”

“ How would Colonization prevent Wars between the Natives?
By employing their Minds and their Bodies; by Europeans settling between them; by Europeans taking up the Slaves as Farm Servants. The Slaves of New Zealand are very impertinent; they are given to Invention and Lies, and those are Things which cause more Wars between the Natives than any thing else. The Chiefs ought to have an Authority. ”

“ Giving up the Pig will not renew former Amity; there must be War. If a Man happen to put his Pipe at the Top of an old Rush House which no Person would live in, War ensues; and Enmities arise from the most trifling Things possible. They are Children on that Subject. Suppose Civilization to eradicate those Superstitions, do you not think the Tribes might live in Amity?
My Opinion is, they will be annihilated before that is done; the only Method I can think of, is Europeans giving them Employment, and keeping them apart. Would they not remember their old Feuds then? ”

“ I do not infer that they would plunder the Inhabitants of New Zealand; but almost every Time a Vessel goes into Port, not only in the Bay of Islands but in various other parts of the World, the Men go on shore and get into a State of Drunkenness in the numerous Liquor Shops established by Men who have quitted other Ships, and who incite the Crews to mutiny; then, from the Circumstance of the Ships being doubly manned, they would have no Difficulty in finding a sufficient Crew for converting them into piratical Vessels. ”

“ Now, when they sit idle, they think how their Forefathers have been conquered and have been eaten, and so on, and that causes Quarrels. It is impossible to prevent Colonization; but it will be Colonization of the worst Kind which must annihilate the People. The generality of the present European Population now residing in New Zealand will destroy, will extirpate and annihilate, the People ; it cannot be otherwise. Many of those Men are superior to the Missionaries in their Influence. A Native looks to the People who will give him most Payment. ”

“ Yes; with just the Headpiece of Europeans, and just that Tact of doing any thing; the most imitating People in the World. When a Slave comes to work for you does he expect you to give him any Information; does he consider himself an Apprentice?
Not the slightest. If he likes any thing he says, “I will imitate this.” I have been fond of drawing; they have immediately imitated my Sketches; taking a Coal from the Fire they make not a bad Imitation. They make native Canoes?
Yes. They build the largest principally in Hawke's Bay; and in the Bay of Islands they are generally inferior. ”

“ We must first get the Proof; but then there would be great Difficulty; our Articles of Agreement for our Ships generally are drawn as strongly as they can be, but still we find them not sufficient to meet the Difficulty; we cannot bring the Charges home. If the Men have Reason to complain of the Master they can prove their Case?
It is much more easy for them to obtain Reparation against the Master than it is for the Captain against the Crews. Should you, individually, be benefited by a stronger Authority being established in New Zealand? ”

“ You are to be understood to say the Land descends from the Father, and is divided among his Children?
Yes; the Right in the Land is hereditary; the Child knows that before an English Child could walk. Does he know that it is hereditary, to be divided among him and all his Brothers? ”

“ Polygamy is the worst thing that can be for Children; Marriage is generally made for political Purposes; the head Wife is the Principal, and much Noise and Trouble and Dissension is occasioned by this. As to the poor Last- comer, if the Husband has any Feeling for her he dare not show it, for he is sometimes under the Petticoat Government; he may be an inferior Chief, and have married a superior Chief Woman, as such he is completely under her Lash. Do you know of any Land of any of those Natives being divided among Ten of their Children? ”

“ Our Crews would not be so disorderly, and we should not lose them. A Voyage may be materially injured from the Desertion of so many of the Crew. They are sometimes important Men, Boat-steerers, Carpenters, and so on; we can replace some of our Sailors by New Zealanders, but not our Boat-steerers or Carpenters. Do you, in your Firm, make use of New Zealand Flax? ”

“ I doubt whether it would be prudent to lay Port Charges on Vessels, for I am afraid that the Whaling Vessels would be driven to commit those Excesses in other Islands which are now committed in New Zealand. Are there any Pirates now in New Zealand?
No. Several Vessels have been run away with by the Crews, of which we have not since heard, but we have no Reason to know that they have been used as Pirates. It is too true that a good many of the Crews in those Whale Ships are Men of very bad Character? ”

“ A Native inflicts Punishment at once now, and gives no Time for Repentance to the Culprit. You state them to be very intelligent and active as Mariners and Agricultural Servants; do you believe they could not cultivate their own Land and navigate their own Seas, provided there were not Europeans, and without the Europeans taking Possession of any of their Territory?
No; they must have Europeans, and they must be employed by Europeans; they must have civilized Persons to employ them. If the Europeans will purchase the Produce, will not they raise it? ”

“ What is a Man who understands Greek or Latin, or Drawing, or Music, or has superior Manners? the Native does not like him so well; but those who come nearest to themselves will have most Influence. They take the Natives Daughters, and a Native gets a certain Payment for that Concubinage; no Respect for the Missionaries creates an Influence like this.
Do you think the Church Missionary Society is hostile to the proposed System of Colonization? ”

“ Colonization would annihilate a great deal of that on the Part of the New Zealanders. If they eat at the Table of Europeans, and mix with them, they easily adopt the civilized Customs; and when their Minds are occupied on the Topics Europeans will bring before them, and when they are fully employed, they will cease to recur to their old Feuds. ”

“ Do they attempt to build larger Vessels?
No. There are Districts of clever Men, such as at the East Cape; they make handsome Mats, and in carving they are peculiarly clever. As a Race of People they are totally different; they are Black, and their Courage is accounted below Par. All the other Natives say that any one of them can beat Natives of the East Cape. Have they never expressed a Wish to imitate the building of European Vessels?
No; but they have bought them. One especially I remember being in the War at Tauranga. ”

“ I cannot account for the Wars having increased; but the Increase has been since Europeans have been there. It is supposed the Europeans have caused it. I believe among the Tribes where the Europeans have been living the Decrease has been greater. In the Sandwich Islands it is supposed no Woman would have Two Children who lived with an Englishman. Do you refer to the Decrease of the Population among those who have had Communication with the Europeans? ”

“ I have always been inclined to think that secular Pursuits have been of Service to the New Zealanders, for they are constantly active, more in Mind than in Body; they must have something to do or they would be thinking of Harm. A Colonization would employ their Minds as well as their Bodies. ”

“ There is; there are about Five Natives to every Three Square Miles of Land. The Northern Island is the most populous; at the same Time it is the smallest. I have been many Miles without seeing a Native; I have been many Nights in the Bush without the Chance of seeing a Native. Has the Influx of Europeans been greater or less of late Years?
The Influx of Europeans has been wonderfully increasing. The last Time the Buffalo Store Ship, which is now on the Coast for Her Majesty loading with Spars, was there, there was very little Population ”

“ There is less Shipping. There are as many Europeans in Hokianga, in which the Wesleyans reside, as in the Bay of Islands. Are there as many bad Men on the West Coast as on the East?
I consider that there are as many; but the Whalers do not come there. There may be about Twelve Vessels per Annum at Hokianga, The Quantity of Shipping in the Bay of Islands may amount to 130. Do you find that the Venereal Disease exists as much in the Parts which are far from the Bay of Islands as there? ”

“ There is no Nation more intelligent on Land or any other Subject. As a Proof of that there is at the present Moment sailing out of Sydney a Mr. Bailey, a New Zealander, Chief of the Tribe of Waitangi in the Bay of Islands ”

“ Where they had an Opportunity of being instructed they have shown great Ability; their Farms have astonished every Stranger who has seen them; every one is surprised at seeing the Beauty of their Land, the weeding of it, and the Regularity of every thing. ”

“ Queen Charlotte Sound, in the Southern Island, Cloudy Bay, Otargo, and all down to the South West is inhabited by European Gangs of Whalers for Merchants resident in Sydney. On the South Island there are Europeans, and there have been Europeans there for the last Five-and-thirty Years past, what the Natives call Kou Matuas; that is, old Men living there for the last Forty Years on the Coast. There are innumerable Europeans ”

“ Is this Woman a Slave?
A free Woman; one of the middling Class. Another Woman was supposed to have killed Eight Children of her own; she had Two Children by the Master of a Whaler. Their principal Reason is that they have not Food to bring them up when unmarried; it is principally the unmarried Women who have the Trouble of procuring them Food; they cannot go about their Plantations, for they have nobody to take care of their Children. Why should the Trouble of getting Food have increased in consequence of Europeans having settled there? ”

“ The Return of the killed and wounded proves that though there were perhaps 3,000 Natives engaged the Loss was but a Cipher. At another Period the valiant Fellows lost Three. You are of opinion that hereafter the Population will not decrease much by War?
The Population will not decrease by War, on account of the Equalization of Fire-arms; but the Loss of the Population, and a frightful Loss it has been to a small Population, has been on the Introduction, when one Party had Fire-arms and the other Party had not; they have no Bows and Arrows to fight at a Distance. ”

“ If it were declared that any Offence committed by one of the Crew of a Vessel under the Flag of England should enable the Owners in this Country to deprive that Man of all his Allowances, you think that would be efficient? ”

“ I think that might prevent those Acts of Insubordination on the Part of British Crews; but that would not stop those of Americans, who visit it in as great Number as the British. Can you state any other Mode which would have the Effect?
The only Way I can think of is to colonize the Islands. There is no Union among the Chiefs; there is no supreme Authority. I believe the Natives are friendly to it. By colonizing you mean depriving the Natives of all sovereign Authority? ”

“ Yes. The Timber that grows there is good for Spars?
Very good; we have seen some remarkably good. Have you ever mixed any New Zealanders with the Crews of those Ships?
We have; and have some at the present Time. What is the Character your Captains give of them?
Generally steady good Seamen. What do you consider the average Duration of a Voyage from hence to New Zealand and back; how long would it take to get a Communication?
About Four Months out and Four Months home. Do they usually return by the same Course they go out?
The Trading Vessels generally return by Cape Horn. ”

“ He has the power to kill One of his Children or One of his Wives; but he must bear the Onus, as the Relations of the Wife or Children would perhaps demand his Life in payment, for they consider the Life of the Child as theirs. ”

“ The Fibre is naturally a very harsh and hard Fibre; with Tar it is still harder. It has been manufactured with a Species of Caoutchouc or Indian Rubber; when immersed in Water the Caoutchouc separates from it and floats at the Top; the Fibre is no longer protected. We have combined a Composition of Caoutchouc with the Tar, and find that answer; but there has been a great Prejudice against the Flax in consequence of its having been badly prepared. ”