“ It may be that floating very small bits of link-text as in the example at the top of this thread may be a common use of this sort of template. However, these templates are encapsulating fundamental layout mechanisms and they should be general. The css utils I gave as examples are general; a floated div can contain a lot and the behaviors I suggested have proven, to me, to be quite handy. Making some behaviors optional might work, and a style attribute can override anything. ”

“ John Vandenberg (chat) 09:15, 28 August 2008 (UTC) I'm skeptical that bending over backward to preserve the original line-breaks is a good idea. The span wrapping you mentioned there is doable, but massively snots-up the wiki-text. I'm thinking you would want to have scripts rewrite the UI to hide them in the edit box? — I'm cringing at the thought. I make most non-trivial edits in an external editor; many do; you must. And all the gore will be right there in front of you. The whole page space is a tool to compare with the scan. ”

“ If the rule I used were the applicable one in the page-space and presentation space, we'd be good. One thing I'm not sure if we can do with wiki-markup is to establish a hook on the ol-element; basically I'd like to set a class on it such as

. Maybe a wrapper div would be needed, or a more complex selector. Rules like this certainly can't be the ambient one as most pages will want vanilla behavior. ”

“ When the content is longer, we get page-widening horizontal scrollbars. If the content is more than half the width of the content area (a function of your viewport size) , the scoot-left leaves the original position of the positioned block hanging-off the right side of the screen and you get a scrollbar. There's nothing over there to see, but the positioning of the outer element expands the area of the viewport and the position of the inner elements isn't pulling it back. ”

“ Local validator is not squawking either. Cheers, Jack Merridew 12:21, 27 August 2008 (UTC) The page template of causing a ton of validation errors when there is a page number; it's creating id that are the number. These will have to change at some point and the easiest/cleanest change is to prefix the number with 'p' — which will break whatever inbound links to the page anchors. An icky option would be to change over the 'old' a-elements with a 'name' attribute, which do allow the first character (or all) to be a digit. ”

“ I did finish reviewing after my last note above, but I'm not sure if I balanced all the usages; i.e. for every start, there's an end usage. I believe the same arg 2 required code should be in the start template; it will at least get the title-attributes working. I see this as requiring adherence to the interface and maintaining flexibility of implementation; we may want to swap the mainspace transclusion back at some point. ”

“ John Vandenberg (chat) 12:29, 20 October 2008 (UTC) Happy to let you know that Alebot can write both the "databox" (i.e. sematization of data by selective transclusion) and a primitive XML structure of them (I hidden it into a HTML comment, so it is visible in edit mode only) . My tests are presently done into authors with "Z" initial (i.e.: it:Template:Émile Zola/Dati) . Be careful if you edit Italian Autore: pages... that playing by you about it:Autore:Gaio Giulio Cesare caused some fuzzy behavior of the bot browsing those pages! ”

“ The lines that appear to have been changed are, ignoring the differences between the Republika Srpska and Serbia versions, these:
So, it is a viable Wiki translation. I will invite Nikola Smolenski (talk • contribs) to come chat about this, and I think that God of Justice should be have the Christich removed from the top, and be moved to God of Justice (Wikisource) or God of Justice (Wikisource translation) , or even Bože pravde (Wikisource) or Bože pravde (Wikisource translation) . ”

“ Ajax sysop (new version of obsolete script) Hello Jayvdb. You were using "Getmoredata.js", which adds a list of subpages (and a block log for user pages) on the deletion form. That script has been replaced by the better-written and more extensible Ajax sysop. I switched you to the new script (see a screenshot comparing outputs) ; if you prefer to use the old script, I'll add the source code directly to your script file since it will no longer be maintained.
You'll need to refresh your browser (CTRL+R in Firefox) to see the new version. ”

“ See the page with you browser not-too-wide; i.e. poem getting pinched in narrower column. Then do an edit-preview and note that in preview, which is wider, it is not pinched. This will confuse folks in page view, though. It also, ah, limits things half-width. Thing still does some weird shite in old IE, though. It often goes screwy with positioning (I care only a little) . This should behave well in all namespaces; there was nothing to that concern, 'twas just that the other tests I was running were with wider stuff.
So, how ya gonna indent a reply to this? ”

“ Every text is different, so we requires a very general common style. I'm going to have to claim the high ground on use cases. I've given an example of a layout that requires floats, which I use in the mainspace very often indeed. Your sidebar example looks great, but I doubt if m/any of our transcribed texts contain such sidebars. I guess my position is that these templates should be as general as necessary but no generaller. Hesperian 13:51, 6 October 2008 (UTC) If I were to make a template out of the hard-coded stuff in yon box, I'd name it something like {{sidebar right}}. ”

“ Sheet music is not very reliable in several ways. Particularly, the punctuation is usually massacred, compared to any printed version of the lyrics. Now, with the Victorian English theatre I tend to work in, I can usually check this against a libretto. However, this is not possible with a lot of the Tin Pan Alley stuff we're working on here, so I'd encourage a certain amount of correction. Secondly, you mention a desire to have a Lilypond version. ”

“ Correspondence should go on a central discussion page like Index talk:Equitation.djvu. --John Vandenberg (chat) 11:47, 18 August 2008 (UTC) I'll have-at; already did with {{underline}} — which I just created. Seems to me that raw html should be avoided in wiki-markup where something else can do the trick. Templates such as the ones I just created can encapsulate the implementation rather than folks using disparate techniques that are hard-coded out there. And bot can always smack stuff about in a big way. ”

“ See my query above (now with the nowiki fixed) . On things like an ol, the ol-element is generated; there's nothing in the wiki-text at all. So how would I specify a class (whatever style sheet it came from) ? Another thing I've long though is that wiki-markup needs a div shorthand. Hard-coding works, but it's rather anti-wiki. Cheers, Jack Merridew 15:03, 18 August 2008 (UTC) London Gazette
You have new messagesHello, John Vandenberg. You have new messages at Jefferyseow's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template. ”

“ Italian air, Pompey html-comment trick on the newlines (as in templates) . Cheers, Jack Merridew 13:13, 1 September 2008 (UTC) I had another thought; what would you think of swapping the behavior of the two in mainspace; i.e. having the word from the end template appear in mainspace and the one from start evaporate? ”

“ I don't want to criticise you, but if you can't read music, you at least need to check with people who do before you revert their fixing of your misreading. Adam Cuerden (talk) 06:04, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads up; yup I dont know much about reading music (I stopped at Three Blind Mice) , and was only paying attention to the text in order to get that right. ”

“ Cheers, Jack Merridew 07:40, 26 October 2008 (UTC) If it works well in main space, that is all that matters; if it doesnt work in Page namespace, we can add a note to say "we are not miracle makers; it does its job once transcluded to mainspace". John Vandenberg (chat) 07:45, 26 October 2008 (UTC) I was toying in my userspace; I'm not sure if it works in mainspace; yon poem doesn't have a presentation layer, yet. Fancy positioning gets complex. Cheers, User:Jack Merridew aka david 08:59, 26 October 2008 (UTC) There are serious limits here ”

“ I'm not worried about IE for the proofreading interface in the Page: namespace; we can tell proofreaders to use Firefox if they want to see the nice paragraph markers. If need be, a JavaScript gadget could be used to provide the paragraph markers in the right spot. John Vandenberg (chat) 13:18, 21 August 2008 (UTC) So were looking at replacing;
body.ns-104 p{ text-indent: 2em; } body.ns-104 .poem p{ text-indent: 0em; } with ”

“ TEXT3

TEXT1

TEXT2

TEXT3

Anyway, your implementations are core in that they're wrapping the attribute and nothing more; any other behaviors can always be implemented in higher-level templates as needed. ”